Do you want Democracy? Or not?

(127 Posts)
Cleo1303 Sat 25-Jun-16 23:03:49

We have just had the Referendum vote and Leave won.

Now we have everyone from David Lammy saying the Government should ignore the result, to Nicola Sturgeon and various London Remainers wanting Scotland and London to declare UDI.

So, do you want democracy where everyone's vote counts, or do you only want a vote when the result suits you and matches your own opinion?

Honest answers please.

MerchantofVenice Sat 25-Jun-16 23:12:45

We have to have democracy. It's a bit shit, but everything else is shitter.

This wasn't great democracy in action though.

Referendum was called because Cameron wanted to protect himself in the last election. It wasn't a big ' but what do the people want' moment.

Leave campaign did not explain what leave meant and just hoped (rightly, it transpires) that people would cling to some weird, outdated, non-existent ideal of our country.

Big fail for democracy.

longdiling Sat 25-Jun-16 23:16:26

Everyone from David Lammy? So that would be David Lammy then. Plus a few mumsnetters.

EdmundCleverClogs Sat 25-Jun-16 23:27:07

So, do you want democracy where everyone's vote counts

Yes and no.

Everyone should have a voice, but there were several seperate countries/principalities taking part. Some voted out, some in. The kicker is, it wouldn't have mattered how all the others voted, England had a 'out' majority, so that's the 'voice' that won. I don't see that as democracy. The vote should have reflected how we all felt in each country, we should have been 'United' in our several voices, coming to one conclusion. If we can't be in agreement, it shouldn't go ahead.

Secondly, this vote should never have gone to the public. Barely anyone had a true grasp of the facts to make a decent decision. So many have messed with our economy and future as an United Kingdom just for a fun gamble it seems, at worst on false or manipulated information. Joe Bloggs was never in a position to make a decision of this magnitude.

HarryElephante Sat 25-Jun-16 23:28:20

I want a democracy where if the vote goes to the people, the people don't make ill/mis/uninformed decisions.

I genuinely believe that has happened here. Something so complex should never have gone to the people

Now that it has, we must accept the result, mind. But what a shambles of a campaign by both sides.

HarryElephante Sat 25-Jun-16 23:29:31

What Edmund said!

IlovesLiz Sat 25-Jun-16 23:30:04

we was fed a lie. if we was told the truth we would have voted differently then we would not be leaving. so gove and boris should be tried for treason because they fed us a lie and the referendum is a fraud.

FinnegansCake Sat 25-Jun-16 23:30:20

Well said Edmund

PrimalLass Sat 25-Jun-16 23:30:48

Not in the hands of fuckwits.

YourPerception Sat 25-Jun-16 23:31:11

If the vote is ignored there will be riots and long term social unrest. It's pointless having a government if the vote is ignored.

YourPerception Sat 25-Jun-16 23:32:38

Fuck it even I will join in if the vote us ignored and I can barely walk.

PrimalLass Sat 25-Jun-16 23:33:07

The government should be going and we should have a general election. How can there be any confidence in them?

GertrudeSmellsDivine Sat 25-Jun-16 23:39:51

Honest answer today is that I can't give an unqualified yes. I have a horrible suspicion that if there were to be a referendum on capital punishment it could be reinstated. I'm very uncomfortable with my own thoughts about democracy today. I don't know what the answer is though. I wish there was a way that politicians and campaigning bodies could be held to account for lying but that woild be unworkable. I know quite a lot of people I wouldn't trust to be able to make an informed decision about which shoes to wear when looking at a weather forecast let alone decide a country's future. They're not a set of thoughts I'm at all happy with and I have no alternative suggestions but you asked for the truth and that's my truth today.

howtorebuild Sat 25-Jun-16 23:42:07

That petition made a bad situation worse.

BMW6 Sat 25-Jun-16 23:43:38

I disagree. Something this massive MUST go to the Public. It is their lives, future and Country, after all.

I could NEVER trust Politicians to make such a monumental decision for me without any redress / accountability.

Which is one of the main reasons why I voted to leave the EU.

When the Maastricht Treaty was signed in 1992 it changed the Common Market to the EU - now evolved into a Political Superstate answerable to no-one. There should have been referendums then in every member state to ask the public if this was what they wanted - in fact the EU itself should have INSISTED on getting the Public mandates, but they did not.
That's the EU "democracy". There is none.

Damn right I seized on this once only chance to get us out from an Undemocratic Racist Corrupt Inefficient Bloated Fuckwittage of an EU.

Rant over.

Tiredbutfuckingfine Sat 25-Jun-16 23:45:16

Actually I think that the question asked on the ballot was wrong, with hindsight.
I'd have said "do you wish to leave the EU and in doing so repeal the agreement which removes us from the Common markets, and replace it with bilateral individual agreements with the potential to restrict movement of EU national whilst no longer having guaranteed free movement for UK citizens...
You get the picture

PNGirl Sat 25-Jun-16 23:47:28

We voted in a government (well, not me, but that isn't important) to represent us and make decisions on many issues. We were then asked to vote on one of those issues. The leader of that government has now been unseated because of this one issue by people who may have agreed with other things the party has done. This will change the direction of the country until we can have a General Election.
So yes, I do want democracy, but do not believe that a referendum on a complex issue like this with no precedent should have been held.

KidLorneRoll Sat 25-Jun-16 23:48:45

The general public are a bunch of fuckwits, easily misled and manipulated by the media. Referendums are an expense way of tossing a coin.

Littlemisslovesspiders Sat 25-Jun-16 23:49:06

Fuck it even I will join in if the vote us ignored and I can barely walk.

Me too.

People already feel ignored in parts of the country and now people are saying sorry but we know better than you..

Yep can see that going down really well.

BMW6 Sat 25-Jun-16 23:55:06

The general public are a bunch of fuckwits, easily misled and manipulated by the media

You can only speak for yourself, so I am sorry that you are so shallow.

applecatchers36 Sat 25-Jun-16 23:55:58

Good question and an uncomfortable one.
Churchill said that that democracy is the worst form of government apart from all the others.
Today maybe with the result of this referendum perhaps it was a decision too important to be subject to an uninformed, emotive general public fed propaganda by a right wing media owned by Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre.
People were fed lies, misunderstood what this referendum was about, some saw it as a protest vote against the current Tory government. Frighteningly the most disenfranchised will suffer the most. You reap what you sow. A divided, diminished, disenfranchised GB, heading rapidly to recession and break up of the union.
Farage and the Brexiters already rowing back on their 'promises'
Is this democracy? For the 48% and possibly more who were lied to and now regret their ' protest' vote?

MrHannahSnell Sat 25-Jun-16 23:56:27

Frankly, right now, I'm not sure I do.sad

BMW6 Sat 25-Jun-16 23:57:15

Or you are in the business of trying to mislead and manipulate the public, which means you work in Advertising.

You do, don't you wink

howtorebuild Sat 25-Jun-16 23:58:37

The mature first time voters were worried their x would be rubbed out. It has by the middle classes remainders that told them they count for nothing and signed that petition.

BMW6 Sat 25-Jun-16 23:58:57

Or you are a Magician? (maybe I'm thinking of misdirection.....)

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