To question if the uk is still a democracy?

(19 Posts)
Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 17:56:02

Not just because of brexit

Been pondering this since the last general election not least because people I know who would KNOW are suggesting we SHOULD be questioning.

Expenses
Vote rigging
20 police forces investigating election fraud in relation to the GE
Divide and conquer policies
Corruption in main stream media
The majority of MP's (of all parties) having privileged backgrounds

Are we now living in a plutocracy?

SmilingHappyBeaver Fri 24-Jun-16 18:01:29

I think democracy should be based on factual debate and transparency. Otherwise it is not democracy, just forcing a result that is based on spin and inaccuracies.

I don't consider the referendum that has just taken place to have been democratic.

Manifesto's should be legally binding, especially when written on the side of a bus.

Paperkins Fri 24-Jun-16 18:05:45

if we don't all vote (those that are eligible) then I don't think it is democratic. If people don't vote because they don't know who to vote for, then they should find out more info.

That said, other countries laughed at our 'democracy' when Blair went to war, despite demonstrations by the public.

Facts and staying on the side of the law should be a high priority. Other countries who had to fight for their democracy in more recent times take it far more seriously.

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 18:10:09

How can we get the facts if our politicians and main stream media hide the ones they don't want us to have?

semideponent Fri 24-Jun-16 18:12:08

2 thoughts…

Highest voter turnout since 2001

And the social media effect - we (almost unwittingly) surround ourselves with people who agree with us. The rewards and punishments are both amped up into lots of likes/retweets or name-calling and verbal abuse. That makes it all the harder to break out whatever the social media echo chamber network we're in. Understanding the other side of the argument and conducting a rational debate becomes that much harder: the result we wake up to may not match the indication we saw the night before.

Libitina Fri 24-Jun-16 18:15:19

Yes, we are a democracy. Unless you don't agree with the result remainers, I'm looking at you.

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 18:15:59

Semi

I see your point on social media but how many leave voters do you think use social media given they're mostly believed to be over 50's?

High turnout - given the votes from the GE are currently under close scrutiny I'll hold off on believing it was totally scrupulous for now

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 18:18:39

Libitina I understand your post but genuinely I have been wondering and investigating (as far as an unemployed lp with no power can) the situation since a friend (who has completely opposite political views to me but works in politics) made an odd comment after the GE - along the lines of 'wow we got away with it!'

semideponent Fri 24-Jun-16 19:31:17

Bacon,

Just trying to think analytically about my own observations and surprise this morning.

Social media networks all too easily give you a sense of things going a certain way, without having much basis in reality. The people who voted in might well be much better linked (and incentivised to share their arguments) on social media than the people who voted out. And yet, the vote depends on people being in a certain place at a certain time, or making definite arrangements for post or proxy. Two different worlds, so expectations more readily part company with what will actually happen.

Now throw the concept of democracy in the mix (when a subset of voters are shown - misleadingly - by social media that most others agree with them) and watch the conspiracy theories mushroom.

We've got to question the story we like to tell ourselves.

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 20:52:55

I agree - but we should also question the story we're being told.

Particularly when there's emerging rather a lot of evidence that this story is being manipulated more than ever before

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 20:55:25

And that evidence isn't coming from where you'd expect necessarily

blinkowl Fri 24-Jun-16 21:08:28

Baconyum I think it's a very important question.

We have a huge marketing and advertising industry because people are easily manipulated, basically. People often don't want to admit it, but we all are. Heck, even the colour of a button on a website can make a difference to how many people click on it and part with their money.

At the same time, we have a media that makes no secret of its attempts to manipulate people, it's as plain as day. But, people get very offended if you suggest they may have voted because of media manipulation.

So it continues.

Can we have real democracy when people are so easily manipulated and no one is seriously limiting the press's power to do so.

I'm not sure if we can. Those with the biggest pockets and/or the media on their side (usually the same thing) tend to win the battle for hearts and minds.

But until we accept that we're all vulnerable to being influenced by the media, and do something to stop it, it will continue.

blinkowl Fri 24-Jun-16 21:11:35

The vote rigging is another thing - why are people not up in arms about it?

As far as I can see - not everyone is aware of it, because huge sections of the media are not giving it the attention it deserves.

And again perhaps because people don't accept they voted how they did because the Tories spent some money on buses (although they'd be wrong! At least some of them will have been influenced by this enough to make them go vote Tory).

PrincessIrene Fri 24-Jun-16 21:14:54

Hang on, yesterday vote rigging was a leave conspiracy. Now it's a remain one? Smh.

saoirse31 Fri 24-Jun-16 21:20:10

You've a head of state whose position is inherited rather than elected, so why not start there. You've a first past the post electoral system which leaves many unrepresented, so you could address that.

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 21:30:45

Princessirene the vote rigging I'm referring to is the GE - it's being investigated.

Thank you for some excellent well thought out posts.

Each time I share something re the vote rigging and election fraud on social media I get several friends (different ones each time) who say they knew nothing about it. There's been VERY little in the msm.

Anyone reading this know who's in charge if the bbc at the moment? Itv?

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 21:32:33

Saoirse31 (I love that name)

I agree that a monarchy and a democracy can't co-exist

incywinci Fri 24-Jun-16 21:42:57

I think the print press has way too much influence on politics, and literally can drive the decision of the electorate, and that is not democracy.

Monarchy is also anti-democratic.

Baconyum Fri 24-Jun-16 21:46:57

Not just the print press in my opinion but also mainstream tv

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