teacher keeping children in

[thatsthewayitgoes]

I really would appreciate your views as I'm not sure if AIBU or if teacher is.

Shortened version of events. My 7 year olds class is not an easy one - some difficult characters. Teacher is new and has had to work on discipline in the class.

Yesterday some of the boys were seen wrecking the younger childrens' sports day preparations by another teacher. This teacher apparently didn't see which boys it was so class teacher decided to keep all the boys in for half an hour at lunchtime.

This meant my son missed a club (that I'd paid for). My son denied he'd been involved. He's a little sh*t at times at home but has never been in trouble at school.

I asked the teacher today if he had been involved. He said "no" he knew my son wasn't involved but as he didn't know who had been he had to keep them all in. He apparently told my son and 2 others that he knew they weren't involved.

I explained that my son felt punished by being kept in. He said he's very sorry but he would do the same again.

AIBU to feel aggrieved on my sons behalf? All the girls were allowed out (even though my son swears one of them was involved). Or is this normal? Thanks X

[Windsofwinter]

It's annoying but I see where the teacher is coming from. It's not something they could allow to go unpunished, and hopefully the wrath of their innocent classmates might act as a deterrent against doing it again.

[Moonlightceleste]

At one particular extra curricular I did as a child, one child did something similar. Our coach made her stand and watch while the rest of us all did 50 press ups, sit ups, star jumps etc. She asked to join in but wasn't allowed and had to stand and watch the rest of us instead. We were all pretty fed up with her after, and oddly enough she never did it again. Sometimes the power of peer disapproval can be far more effective than punishment from 'above,' so to speak. I am completely with the teacher on this one.

[HenryIX]

I hate collective punishments. If they were done to adults they would be illegal. In no civilised world would the courts jail, for example, all the people who had been in a shop at the time of a robbery, just because they couldn't find out who had actually done the crime.
If that happened to my child, I would have kicked up much more of a fuss. (However, i would not let my child know, I think parents need to show the children they are working with the school. )

[FourEyesGood]

YANBU. I usually try to side with teachers on MN threads (solidarity!), but one of the first things I learnt when doing my teacher training course was that punishing a whole class for the poor behaviour of a few pupils is never acceptable. The teacher is wrong, and needs to find another way to deal with the class.

[pointythings]

Collective punishments are illegal in international law. So why do people think it is OK in the classroom? This teacher is weak and ineffectual. All this will do is teach the good kids that there is no point in behaving well, because they will be punished for what others get up to.

[Coconut0il]

I really hate collective punishments. I would be asking for my money back for the missed club.

[Ameliablue]

I think it depends why they think your son wasn't involved. If there was evidence he wasn't, he should not have been punished but if this is one out of several incidents that have occurred, then a group punishment would be reasonable.

[Whatsername17]

I'm a teacher here and whole class detentions are a complete no-no. You speak to the kids and you will find out who did what. It's not difficult really.

[FuriousFate]

Collective punishments say a lot about the teacher who dishes them out, if you ask me. I'd be complaining to the head and requesting a refund for the missed activity in no uncertain terms. He knew your son wasn't involved but punished him as others of the same gender were?! What if it had been all the black/white/Chinese kids in the class? Nope - he wouldn't have dared try that. But gender - apparently still ok to segregate I'd want a written apology to both you and your son (and anyone else who was unfairly detained). I'd also be wondering if the characters in the class were actually tricky or whether it was more the fact that they have an ineffective teacher...

[grannytomine]

I hate teachers using this sort of group punishment and the idea that peer pressure will solve everything. The teacher is being paid to do a job and I don't think they should use children to do it for them.

[BlackeyedSusan]

dd's teacher uses collective punishments. Glad to see that other teachers think this is a crap technique too.

[beetroot2]

I see it as a two way whammy. The ones that did it get punished and the ones that didn't know not to do it. Being kept in for half an hour isn't a big deal in the whole scheme of things.

[Egosumgism]

"illegal in international law so why do it to a child?"

Get a bloody grip!

They can work and may here. Peer pressure can work negatively (hey, try cigarettes, they're cool) as well as positively.

It isn't using children to do a child's job for them, it's looking for an acceptable outcome. Of course it shouldn't be a go-to method but in a difficult class it can certainly be tried.

I'm a recently retired (career change) headmistress, for what it's worth.

[Nataleejah]

The teacher should reimburse for the missed club. Shitty attitude

[jay55]

Keeping kids in who are already using their excess energy for destruction sounds barmy.

[Feenie]

Collective punishments are incredibly unfair, as I explained to my ds's NQT. The last straw was when she made all of the boys stand against the wall all playtime for something that had happened when.ds was absent the day before. He should have told her, but was too worried (whole other issue, we're working on that).

I just talked to her about it and asked if it was in their behaviour policy - and of course, it wasn't. She stopped. It's a rookie mistake.

[Nataleejah]

Nataleejah, that is a somewhat ridiculous suggestion. The teacher is accountable for any misconduct (not that this is that!) under school policies and is not obliged to make financial recompense to parents.

The teacher well knew the said child wasn't at fault. It was just "to make a point". How parents are supposed to support the school?

[corythatwas]

I think I'm with Pearlman on this one. I don't approve of collective punishments, I think using them often is a sign of weakness, but if my own ds was affected I would not make a fuss. I might tell ds that "yeah, I don't think this is ideal but it's not worth making a fuss about". I want him to be able to tell the difference between serious wrongs that it is his duty to speak up about and minor possible misjudgements of the kind that
happen in a family all the time. I am not going to march into the school to make a fuss about the kind of slight misjudgement of a situation that I know I make myself all the time. Teachers are human as are parents- and managers once they get to work.

From my own experience of school, peer pressure is not always an ideal tool; in many schools the well behaved nerds who just want to get on with learning have such low social status that their disapproval doesn't make the slightest difference- if anything, it is seen as a sign that you are doing things right.

[Nataleejah]

A one-off mistake can easily become a common practice if everybody accepts. I'd raise it with the school -- if they happily collect money from parents for activities, they should ensure that individual teachers' whims don't put parents at a loss.

And in peer pressure, the 'good guys' never win. Its the troublemakers who rule the world.

[Caboodle]

Another teacher here. I disagree with collective punishments-instead speak to the kids and find out who did it.

[Witchend]

The children can vote on it. I'd bet they'll vote leave too.

[DPotter]

I totally agree that collective punishments are inappropriate and ineffective.
At primary school a million years ago we had yrs 5 & 6 in the same class - massive number of children and we were in 4 'houses'; one lad who with hindsight had some sort of attention disorder and constantly causing disruption, had all the points from our 'house' deducted -twice. The second time the boys kicked the shit out of him. So yeah peer pressure really good way to control poor behaviour - NOT!