To not want a breech vaginal birth?

(77 Posts)
jonsnowssocks Thu 02-Jun-16 16:00:46

I live in France, so dealing with the French system rather than the NHS.

I'm 36 weeks pregnant and at my last scan baby was breech. Routine appt with anaesthetist was today, and I've been told that if the baby stays breech I won't have the option of a planned c-section. They will try to deliver the baby vaginally and if there is a problem have an emergency c-section.

I really don't want a c-section - have been hoping all along for a natural birth with the least intervention possible - but given the situation and research on breech births I would much rather have a planned section then an emergency one, or even a vaginal breech.

I never thought I'd be the kind of person who'd go against what the doctor said was best, but this has really scared me. The anesthetist said the only thing I could do would be to discuss with the doctor while I'm in labour and they might agree to an emergency c-section but equally might push on with a vaginal breech even if it's expressly against my wishes.

AIBU to want a planned c-section if the baby is still breech?

Cakescakescakes Thu 02-Jun-16 16:05:28

Most babies do turn so don't give up just yet. My ds2 was breech all along and turned at 38 weeks. Here they don't do normal deliveries for breech - only sections. Is the hospital experienced in vaginal breech deliveries?

Peppermintea Thu 02-Jun-16 16:11:23

I was breech when my mum had me and so had a planned C section. I didn't turn. Can you fight for what you want and book in a C section? I would not want a vaginal breech delivery under any circumstances. How long until due date?

GinandJag Thu 02-Jun-16 16:13:50

I had a vaginal breech and it was fine.

Had labour not progressed, I would have wanted a C-section. I would not have wanted any other intervention.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster Thu 02-Jun-16 16:15:25

My first was breech (feet first) and I was told I couldn't have a vaginal birth as it would be very dangerous for both me and the baby.

C-section at 39 weeks and he hadn't turned, as with first baby there isn't always much room towards the end.

Are you on a private health care plan, is there any way you can demand a section?

GraysAnalogy Thu 02-Jun-16 16:15:46

No YANBU and I'm surprised that this is a rule?!

MLGs Thu 02-Jun-16 16:19:36

Yanbu.

I would not want that.

Planned C section is so much safer than emergency c section.

Are you bilingual OP? I would want to be able to argue with them properly. Are you able to research your rights online or speak to someone who knows?

That said most babies do turn. But I'd want to know my rights.

DrasticAction Thu 02-Jun-16 16:21:29

i think this is utterly barbaric.
Forcing a woman to give birth in this manner with this stress. Can you come back to UK for birth?

PolaroidsFromTheDead Thu 02-Jun-16 16:22:55

Part of what makes breech births dangerous in the NHS is that C Sections have become the standard of care for a baby identified as breech. Therefore, most breach babies are delivered by planned C Section so doctors and midwives are not experienced in this kind of delivery.

Whereas in France, vaginal delivery of breech babies remains standard practice and HCPs will be experienced in dealing with such a delivery.

Having said that, of course you should be able to have a C Section if that is what you want. Is there any option to see another obstetrician who might be more amenable to your wishes?

MrsTerryPratchett Thu 02-Jun-16 16:27:49

Planned C section is so much safer than emergency c section. Yes but most babies turn and a 'natural' vaginal birth is safer than an earlier c-section.

I'd want to see the stats. Do some research. I'm not sure I would just assume the French system is wrong and the US/UK system is right.

I'm a little biased because I know a delightful teen who was a footling breech vaginal birthed baby.

Popskipiekin Thu 02-Jun-16 16:29:27

What are your options for having baby manually turned (ecv), do they do that in France? - a friend of mine had this successfully at 37 weeks. She said it was a bit uncomfortable but worth it for the outcome. Have also heard acupuncture works but no idea how!

Good luck and flowers - forcing you to have a vaginal breech birth which could segue into the stress of an emergency c section sounds absolutely horrific, hope you manage to avoid.

Somewhereundertheduvet Thu 02-Jun-16 16:29:57

YANBU
Dd was breech and I had a planned C-section at 39 weeks.
The obstetrician did try to turn her (it involved muscle relaxing drugs and lots of hard pushing on my stomach) but Dd resolutely stayed put - with her hard head under my ribcage and her bony little bottom wedged into my pelvis!

libertygirl Thu 02-Jun-16 16:36:42

I had a vaginal breech birth with my first 8 years ago. She was an undiagnosed breech so we didn't know until her bottom appeared first. It all happened so quick that I didn't have chance to have c-section. I also had no time for pain relief. I'm telling you this because I can honestly say it didn't hurt and was quick.

I have a history of quick though as my son was born last thurs. (9 days early). I was fully dilated before I realised I was in labour. Whole thing over and done with in an hour. Again no time for pain relief.

I'm telling you this as reassurance in case you do have a vaginal breech. Feel free to message me privately if you want to talk anymore. Wishing you all the best.

jonsnowssocks Thu 02-Jun-16 16:39:19

Just doing a bit of research, and like Polaroids said, it seems to be standard practice here to try for a vaginal birth in the case of breech presentation. I can't find any stats on my particular hospital, but essentially all breech births are carried out by a doctor rather than midwife, with an anaesthetist present, and an operating theatre prepped for a cesarean just in case.

The only thing that seems different from what I've been told today is that I should get the final say in how I give birth. Definitely not what I was told today!!

I am bilingual enough, but really it's a case of whether I can stay calm enough to put my case across properly! And I couldn't get back to the UK now - it's too late to travel and, despite my current angst, I trust the French system more than the British one. I've just been really caught off guard by this anaesthetist and his attitude!

rainytea Thu 02-Jun-16 16:41:52

I agree with Polaroids' point about the experience level of HCPs in France for breech births. I was looking at a breech birth in France too (baby turned in the night at 38 weeks - I dreamed I'd given birth and couldn't understand what had happened until the next midwife visit!). I wanted to go for vaginal first, so slightly different, but was told that I needed to basically dilate a cm per hour or I'd have to have a csection. The rules were stricter than for more straightforward births.

If your baby is still breech when the time comes then the hospital will be aware that you're at an elevated risk of needing a csection. So, it wouldn't be exactly the same as a sudden, out of the blue, situation taking everybody by surprise. You should double check all this with your Dr/midwife, but that was the situation for me.

I'm very surprised they're pushing you to have a vaginal birth though, for any reason, because generally in France they're much more medicalised. Are you with a more natural birthing group, or is it just your local maternité?

rainytea Thu 02-Jun-16 16:42:21

I agree with Polaroids' point about the experience level of HCPs in France for breech births. I was looking at a breech birth in France too (baby turned in the night at 38 weeks - I dreamed I'd given birth and couldn't understand what had happened until the next midwife visit!). I wanted to go for vaginal first, so slightly different, but was told that I needed to basically dilate a cm per hour or I'd have to have a csection. The rules were stricter than for more straightforward births.

If your baby is still breech when the time comes then the hospital will be aware that you're at an elevated risk of needing a csection. So, it wouldn't be exactly the same as a sudden, out of the blue, situation taking everybody by surprise. You should double check all this with your Dr/midwife, but that was the situation for me.

I'm very surprised they're pushing you to have a vaginal birth though, for any reason, because generally in France they're much more medicalised. Are you with a more natural birthing group, or is it just your local maternité?

rainytea Thu 02-Jun-16 16:43:13

Cross post that doubled - sorry!

GinandJag Thu 02-Jun-16 16:43:31

Google Mary Cronk. She reassured me about vaginal breech, but also advocated straight to C-section if intervention was necessary. I had my DD abroad as well.

jonsnowssocks Thu 02-Jun-16 16:44:06

Terry you're spot on there - I've spent my whole pregnancy on British websites and forums so just assumed dealing with breech would be the same here. My own bloody fault for bring so lazy.

Statistically, giving birth in France is safer than in the UK and quite a lot safer than the USA, but English - language research (Lancet etc) shows that planned c-section for breech is safer than vaginal birth.

BombadierFritz Thu 02-Jun-16 16:44:21

As you say, i also would trust the french system more. Hopefully baby will turn before then as well

stopfuckingshoutingatme Thu 02-Jun-16 16:46:12

cant a midwife turn the baby? I think most experienced ones can - try not to worry as they do turn XXX

BeauGlacons Thu 02-Jun-16 16:46:42

I think you can ask to see the lead obstetrician in France. I'd be far more confident having a baby in France than in the UK. If there's a Dr and anaesthetist at the birth and you are ready to roll immediately if a section is required that sounds good.

MadamDeathstare Thu 02-Jun-16 16:48:47

You've spoken to the anethsetist but have you spoken to the obstetrician who will be doing the delivery? They may have very different views, especially if this is making you stressed (which could raise your blood pressure and slow down labor). The doctor may have done a lot of these type of deliveries too and be able to give you a good idea of the different levels of risks involved between a planned c-section and a vaginal breech delivery.

frazzledmum2016 Thu 02-Jun-16 17:06:31

Would you consider/ do you have the option of trying for an ECV, like someone else has said (where they manually turn the baby in the womb)?

My second baby was stubbornly breech for at least the last 11 weeks (I first found out at 28 wk appointment). I was booked in for an elective C section but didn't want one - mainly because my elder daughter is disabled and needs a lot of lifting which would have been impossible to avoid for six weeks post-op. Was offered an ECV but was so scared of any potential risks - after reading of some people's bad experiences on being sent home to wait for labour afterwards - that they agreed to do a ECV at 39 weeks and if it worked, to induce me immediately. Otherwise I would have the C section. The ECV worked, I was induced and had a vaginal birth (albeit with the help of ventouse at the end). It wasn't really painful at all, a little bit uncomfortable perhaps but having a sweep/my waters broken hurt a lot, lot more! It was relatively quick and easy, although apparently the success rate is higher with someone who has already had a baby as there is more room in the uterus.

I also tried acupuncture to turn the baby (moxa sticks etc). I do believe acupuncture can work for many things but it didn't work for me in this instance.

I really hope you manage to find something that works for you as your situation does sound stressful - good luck.

DrasticAction Thu 02-Jun-16 17:11:39

I believe breech delivery is also standard in Japan. HCP are experienced in these births.

But does that make it OK for a mum who has a breach and does not want to give birth in this way?

I dont care how experienced they are, labour and birth is bad enough without this added problem.

I dont see why any woman with no other issues ie, above, disabled DD to lift, would want to give birth this way, when you could have a wonderful, ELC< planned, calm, you know whats coming etc.

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