To ask if you agree with forced sterilisation?

(240 Posts)
NeedACleverNN Sun 29-May-16 16:24:20

An acquaintance I know has been court ordered to be sterilised. No choice.

I don't know the exact details but I do know several children have already been removed on welfare issues.

Whilst I feel sorry for her because she loves children, I do think the judge made the right choice. She has a few mental health problems and struggles to take care of herself let alone dependent children.

Do you think judges should be able to do this or not?

JacquesHammer Sun 29-May-16 16:28:11

I have surprised myself by being quite conflicted by this.

The concept as a whole contravenes so wholly everything I believe in about female body autonomy.

Yet I imagine there are cases where it would be the best and safest thing.

I wouldn't like to be the judge having to make that decision

AndNowItsSeven Sun 29-May-16 16:29:27

No, never.

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 29-May-16 16:29:29

It's a tough one isn't it.

I don't agree peope have the right to force anyone to do anything with their bodies that they don't want.

however when people are basically being forced to get pregnant ( with severe enough LDS/MH issues etc that they just don't understand what's actually going on) by partners taking advantage of their vulnerable states, or their lives and/or mental health are at severe risk then that poses such a dilemma.

I couldn't make that call.

I don't envy the judges who have to...

AgeOfEarthquakes Sun 29-May-16 16:29:33

The concept as a whole contravenes so wholly everything I believe in about female body autonomy.

^ This.

ScarletOverkill Sun 29-May-16 16:33:47

I didn't think was legal! shock
Which country are you in?
I too am conflicted about this.

BitchPeas Sun 29-May-16 16:34:03

As a last resort, yes, for males and females.

Children don't ask to be born into abusive mayhem. Preventing that is, in my opinion, more important that female/male body autonomy.

MrsTerryPratchett Sun 29-May-16 16:35:01

Any chance they are going to sterilize all the men who had sex with her? Does she have capacity to consent? If not, are those men in prison?

skivvywoman Sun 29-May-16 16:35:24

Its a tough one!!

My friend is a foster carer of a little boy who has 7 siblings all in the care system and 1 who has been adopted the mother was made to be sterilised which I can see why as she doesn't and won't ever get those kids back due to neglect!

And it's ok saying she might change which would be great but she should concentrate on getting those kids rather than having more!

This post won't go down well!

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 29-May-16 16:35:47

The concept as a whole contravenes so wholly everything I believe in about female body autonomy

but what happens when they don't truly have it anyway?

either from abusive or manipulative partners

or from geographical or religious prevention of access to birth control..

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 29-May-16 16:36:49

And yy to the men being in prison.

they have to he found first I guess.

Bolograph Sun 29-May-16 16:37:13

More detail would be interesting as few doctors in the uk would be willing to do the operation and a court would be very very reluctant to try even for a patient who had been sectioned or was a ward of court. Are you sure they haven't been presented with a choice that makes sterilisation the least worst option? I'm not saying that is not itself coercive but forced sterilisation would be a massive news story were it to happen on the terms you imply.

ClaudiaWankleman Sun 29-May-16 16:37:43

No, never. I cannot reconcile any possible ways that it could protect somebody with the complete loss of autonomy and control that it entails. Horrific.

witsender Sun 29-May-16 16:39:16

Does she have understanding of what is happening? Of preganancy and how to prevent it? How vulnerable is she? Does she want more children?

I didn't realise this was legal tbh.

NeedACleverNN Sun 29-May-16 16:39:40

I am in the uk and I don't know anything about her bf. I only know this action because I know her mum.

It's a difficult one and yeah I would hate to be the judge in that case

MrsJayy Sun 29-May-16 16:41:58

In the uk really never heard of this it must have been a severe case im all for body autonomy but a child does not ask to be born abused and neglected if a woman is not caring for several children then i do think she should stop having babies in needs to be a case by case decision obviously

MilkTwoSugarsThanks Sun 29-May-16 16:42:15

What would the alternative be? Repeatedly getting pregnant and having the babies removed? Never having sexual intercourse?

Thank god I'm not a judge.

tiggytape Sun 29-May-16 16:45:12

No, never. I cannot reconcile any possible ways that it could protect somebody with the complete loss of autonomy and control that it entails. Horrific.
I suppose the counter argument is that the person has no autonomy anyway in a practical sense i.e. someone so vulnerable that they cannot choose whether they want a pregnancy, have no concept of the risks of pregnancy and no chance of ever being allowed to raise any child they may have.
So this ruling is substituting one loss of autonomy with a different (safer) loss of autonomy but I would hope that it is reserved for only the most extreme circumstances regarding capacity and safety.

NeedACleverNN Sun 29-May-16 16:45:29

This is not my acquaintance but it has happened before

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31128969

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 29-May-16 16:46:02

there was a case not so long ago wasn't there?

of a woman giving birth to previous babies in a dirty home. they sterilised her I think when she had her 6th or 7th chikd by c section and discovered her uterus was paper thin and another pregnancy would kill her.

If I remember correctly she was mentally not all there, she didnt have full understanding.

I guess the reason they choose the mum rather than the man.is because it's her life that's at immediate risk and should she move on to another man, one who hasn't been sterilised then she's dead...

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 29-May-16 16:46:35

x post

Furcat85 Sun 29-May-16 16:46:49

It's such a hard one, couldn't they force women in this situation to have a coil or monthly injection and then an application can be made in future to have it removed or stopped? At least that gives an opportunity for recovery and rehabilitation to allow a family in the future.

Bolograph Sun 29-May-16 16:47:41

Yes, those are the sort of extreme circumstances where it could be justified. Presumably if the case you are talking about were as extreme you would know.

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 29-May-16 16:48:53

They have to show up for the injections

might not be possible witg an unwilling partner.

could can be removed or fail. there's the chance of a diy remove at home too.

MrsJayy Sun 29-May-16 16:50:29

Some people cant be rehabilitated to be better parents you can throw all the classes and support at them and nothing changes

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