to not know what Ken Livingstone said?

[cjt110]

I know Naz Shah said about moving Jews to Israel or something along those lines but I saw on the News that ken Livingstone had also been suspended over a Nazi comment but it didn't mention what he said. Can anyone shed some light?

[firesidechat]

Google it?

Took me 2 seconds to find this:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-anti-semitism-row-full-transcript-of-ken-livingstones-interviews-a7005311.html

[cjt110]

But why did the news say what Naz shah said, yet I havent heard it on the news what Ken said?

[SarahVineTory]

Agenda of the press coupled with complexity. He, Naz and JM were embarrassing.

[acasualobserver]

I know Naz Shah said about moving Jews to Israel or something along those lines

She shared a Facebook post recommending the relocation of Israel to the United States.

[CoolforKittyCats]

But why did the news say what Naz shah said, yet I havent heard it on the news what Ken said?

Really?

It has been on every news bulletin and most front pages of news papers!

[cjt110]

perhaps I just havent seen the newspapers? Will go and have a read

[CoolforKittyCats]

Or watched any news on tv?

[firesidechat]

It's been all over the television and radio news and I assume in all newspapers. I honestly don't know how you've missed it.

[cjt110]

Coolfor No, i saw the news at 10 and it said about Ken livingstone being suspended but didn't say what for. All I saw was him saying about he was just saying facts about history.

[stilllovingmysleep]

I read it and am very perplexed (perhaps because I don't know what Naz Shah said?).

[Lweji]

YANBU for not knowing, YABU for not looking it up. :)

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

I watched the BBC news at 10 and it was quite clear regarding exactly what Ken Livingstone said.

Anyway, there are lots of online newspaper articles and opinion pieces setting out what happened.

I can't work out if you are being slightly disingenuous. Do you mean you don't u set stand why what Ken Livingstone said was offensive? Is that what you want to discuss? If so, just say so

[howtorebuild]

BBC London news interviewed a historian, it appears KL was correct. What is down to opinion is how he applied the facts. I don't agree with KL, I do believe he has a right to an opinion. There seems to be a lot of bullying going on in society.

[CoolforKittyCats]

KL knew exactly what he was saying.

To say in all his years he has never heard anything anti-Semetic is quite frankly ridiculous. Especially as LP members have been expelled for saying things that are openly anti-Semetic.

[cjt110]

Goobo oh god no - i genuinely didn't know what he had said.

Having now listened to the interview - he has stated a fact about something but used it to back up Naz Shah's comments made years ago as though it is jutification for what she was saying. And stating that at the time thre was a lot going on with regards to Israel and therefore her comments were "ok"? Have I interpreted that right?

[blearynweary]

BBC London news interviewed a historian, it appears KL was correct. What is down to opinion is how he applied the facts. I don't agree with KL, I do believe he has a right to an opinion. There seems to be a lot of bullying going on in society.

^^ this

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Ken livingstone's interpretation of the facts is bonkers and offensive.

He said: "[Hitler] was supporting Zionism before he went mad and ended up killing six millionJews"

Hitler was not supporting Zionism. He was trying to forcibly deport Jews. He got fed up of doing that and just decided to murder them instead.

It's like saying slave traders were just trying to find people jobs

[cjt110]

This is why I don't take an interest in politics normally.

[Lweji]

Actually, maybe you should.

[KurriKurri]

What he said was quite bizarre and IMO he is being disingenuous if he claims it was said for any reason other than to be provocative. He's an experienced and very media savvy MP - he knew exactly what a furore his remarks would provoke.

And these sorts of clearly anti semitic remarks don't help in what should be a serious and sensible debate about whether one can be anti some of the actions of the right wing Israeli govt. against the Palestinians whilst still being sympathetic to the rights of the Jewish people , and deploring the many and terrible atrocities that have been committed against Jewish people in the distant and not so distant past.

[firesidechat]

This is why I don't take an interest in politics normally.

Do you mean the replies on here or the reporting?

[cjt110]

Actually, maybe you should. I just don't understand politics, or politicians for that matter. Why would someone say something that is very inflamatory and expect to get away with it? Moron.

Do you mean the replies on here or the reporting? I just mean politics. It's like a bunch of kids in the playground

[BillSykesDog]

I don't agree with KL, I do believe he has a right to an opinion. There seems to be a lot of bullying going on in society.

But KL and his supporters are exactly the sort of people who have, for the last 20 years, assiduously policed the language of others for any sign of real or perceived racism and led witch hunts and made political capital against their enemies for the same.

While I do, in theory, agree with you that people have a right to an opinion, I don't really understand why the left has decided to apply the exact opposite to other people (particularly relating to the discussion of Islam) but when the same standards are applied to them they suddenly want to move the goalposts and become tolerant of views which offend some?

[AlpacaPicnic]

Is there anyone reading MN who can explain to me in very very simple terms what zionism is/means, and why it was bad what Ken Livingstone said? I've tried to understand it and it just is washing over me... I want to understand though.