restraining children.....

(147 Posts)
wannabehippyandcrazycatlover Fri 08-Apr-16 08:46:14

https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/10153677541037672/

I've just seen this footage, and the comments are pretty disturbing claiming 'well if you're going to misbehave' etc.

AIBU to think you should never body slam a 12 year old?!

DropYourSword Fri 08-Apr-16 08:49:40

I think we don't have enough information to make an informed judgement.

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover Fri 08-Apr-16 08:52:24

I still don't think you should body slam a child. There are other ways to restrain a person without knocking them unconscious which he appears to do.

Stanky Fri 08-Apr-16 09:33:40

It is difficult to judge, but I think that the police officer did go over the top. Some intervention was probably required, and maybe she was acting all cocky, but we just don't know without the full story.

PPie10 Fri 08-Apr-16 09:38:13

No you don't have the full facts to judge. She could have been out of control. Just because she's a child?

Farahilda Fri 08-Apr-16 09:38:25

I think we need to know considerably more bout what was going on, and whether and to whom she was posing a threat.

It does seem as if there was a fight in progress (or about to kick off), and this may have been the 'least harm' option in that officer's opinion whilst it was all going on.

It does however need proper investigation.

I'm neither going to support nor condemn on the basis of the video alone.

UmbongoUnchained Fri 08-Apr-16 09:39:00

What did she expect?

NeedACleverNN Fri 08-Apr-16 09:41:21

A bit of an extreme example but what if that girl had a knife on her?

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover Fri 08-Apr-16 09:44:13

It doesn't look like she has any weapon on her?

It looks like there has been a fight, yes, but I don't think you can fight violence with violence. It appears the police officer used excessive force in my opinion.

NeedACleverNN Fri 08-Apr-16 09:47:38

But if she had would you condone it then?

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover Fri 08-Apr-16 09:48:52

No I wouldn't. There are methods to disarm without body slamming- he is an adult man who violently restrained a 12 year old girl.

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover Fri 08-Apr-16 09:50:25

If your 12 year old got into a fight in school, like children do sometimes, how would you feel that a police officer nearly knocked them unconscious?

NeedACleverNN Fri 08-Apr-16 09:52:47

I wouldn't be happy about it.
But like others said we don't know the full circumstances. The police officer probably did what was needed to have the safest outcome.

If my child was one of the onlookers as opposed to the offender, I would have been happy that there is necessary force available if needed for the protection of the others

EponasWildDaughter Fri 08-Apr-16 09:54:42

I don't think you can fight violence with violence

confused

So you if you called the police because someone was being violent (towards you? your family?) you would want the police to ... what?

exLtEveDallas Fri 08-Apr-16 09:55:19

This is in America. American cops are trained to bring suspects to the ground as an immediate defence - less harm will come to both suspect and officer that way.

On the video the girl is already restrained, but aims two kicks at the officer. We don't know what happened previous leading to the initial restraint. She may have already caused injury so getting her to the floor was in the best interest of all concerned - including bystanders.

I don't blame the cop. Yes the kid was 12, but I've seen the damage that even younger kids can do with one well placed kick/head butt, so her age has no bearing on the incident.

HPsauciness Fri 08-Apr-16 09:59:15

It looks excessive, very excessive.

Officers and others involved with the public like bouncers can't use disproportionate force. That's why body cams are good and why a lot of police officers like them, as they can also then be protected against false allegations.

The fact everyone around her is so shocked tells you they weren't all grateful she was being restrained like that. It's hardly like she's a huge drunk out of control guy threatening outsiders being wrestled into the back of a police van.

Use of force comes in (legally) after you have tried non-violent means to prevent the situation, if the situation is very risky (e.g. if they had a weapon) and you use the least amount of force to regain control of the situation.

HPsauciness Fri 08-Apr-16 10:01:41

My concern would be that this is excessive force in terms of risk to her. That body slam is uncontrolled, he can't control what she lands on and her head may well have hit the floor/another object/person in doing it. It looks like it could cause injury quite easily, which is already a risk in restraint procedures.

howmanyairmiles Fri 08-Apr-16 10:06:06

It does seem OTT from a UK perspective,

However would have thought it sensible to comply with a cops request.
Some countries have a more robust approach to policing than what we have.

exLtEveDallas Fri 08-Apr-16 10:06:38

It's hardly like she's a huge drunk out of control guy threatening outsiders being wrestled into the back of a police

A 5 year old boy headbutted my friend so hard that one of her back teeth dislodged and severed a nerve. She was blind in one eye for 10 days, has damage to her facial nerves, was off work for almost 4 months. Age/size has nothing to do with it.

During a riot my police officer BIL was kicked in the crotch by a female protester. He lost one of his testicles and had to have 3 surgeries before he was fit to return. Sex/gender has nothing to do with it.

HPsauciness Fri 08-Apr-16 10:10:49

I don't get the point though ex you still wouldn't body slam a 5 year old, even if they were violent and out of control would you? It's an exceptionally uncontrolled thing to do, which might genuinely injure a lighter/smaller person or child.

The other problem with excessive force is that it can provoke bystanders into trying to intervene or becoming hostile and an overall more aggressive crowd situation developing. Legitimate force is proportionate and makes others feel safer. There is research on this.

Your BIL is a good example, hopefully they responded with proportionate force and controlled the situation.

It's not body slam or do nothing!

kali110 Fri 08-Apr-16 10:12:04

I don't judge the cop at all! Just because she's a child doesn't mean she's not capable of hurting him or having a weapon! You only have to look in the news to see attacks with kids involved are happening more and more. Just because she's a child he should be hurt?
You can hear her friends shouting at her to calm down in the video, so i don't think she is all sweetness and was going to come quietly.
No, i wouldnt happy if it were my child, but i'd have been
More disgusted at them resisting arrest or getting themselves arrested in the first place.

kali110 Fri 08-Apr-16 10:12:57

ex that is awful. What a disgraceful woman.

curren Fri 08-Apr-16 10:13:17

It doesn't look like she has any weapon on her?

You know that do you? Or maybe she has said she has a knife. The policeman may have over reacted. But you do realise they are only people. If he was concerned she was going to do something stupid to herself, others or him. It may have been the appropriate.

The fact that it only captures that part and not lead up, suggests there could be more to it.

It looks excessive but you have no idea what has happened immediately before this. Or even in the days a weeks before. She may have a history of harming her or others.

I think the reaction of the kids laughing is quite shocking. My dd would be shocked into science, of this happened at your school.

PPie10 Fri 08-Apr-16 10:17:06

he is an adult man who violently restrained a 12 year old girl.

Oh shame. Because she's a 'child' and a girl you think she must be treated as special?
He did this in full view of people and being taped. He must have had very good reason. 12yo can commit awful acts and be vile too dont you know that? We don't know what she did so you can't say it was too excessive or not.

MrsDeVere Fri 08-Apr-16 10:17:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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