To ask for your help, I have been so stupid....

[Whirlytwos]

I am so upset right now, I am trying not to get teary.

For background, I have 16 month old twins, and a brain tumour, so am under a certain degree of stress.

Basically we moved house 9 months ago into a total 70s timewarp. I so need a kitchen that my DDs can play in safely while I cook, but we have a limited budget. Kitchen needs building work that hopefully will be underway in May. As a kichen centrepiece I wanted a beautiful high end cooker, but planned to buy 2nd hand due to budget.

They don't come up often so I have been waiting for one on ebay. Saw one a couple of weeks ago, priced at £2500, in perfect condition. No-one bought it, so I called the seller on the number in the ebay listing and agreed a sale at £2,250. They had 100% feedback. Transferred funds to his account, booked shipping, and a cooker arrived here on Friday. Note, private sale, no Paypal..... i know, stupid stupid me.

But it's not the one I bought! It's damaged, and it is a dfferent cooker with a dfferent badge! The seller won't return my emails.

I've spoken with his wife a couple of times, and she's tried a few different excuses about the cooker.
Like, it is the one I ordered....But it is clearly different to the ebay pictures.

Then she said I wasn't clear which cooker I wanted, But I was, the ebay item number was the reference I used for bank payment., and there was only one the same colour on ebay anyway.

Now she says the damage happened in transit! I paid for transit. I did pay for insurance.

Huffily she said if I pay to ship it back (another £85), then she'll refund me.

But I don't trust these people now. Can I make them arrange the shipping? What if they claim not to receive it, or say it's damaged in transit and so refuse to refund? That would make things difficult because the shipping contract would be between me and the shipper.

It also turns out they are in business selling high end used catering equipment. But they are not listed as business sellers on ebay, and I paid a personal account, not a business account. As I understand it, posing as a private seller when you're really a business is a criminal offence.

I spoke with the consumer helpline and they said the seller doesn't have to pay for shipping. But if I arrange shipping it puts me at even more risk.

I've been so naive, I am kicking myself. I have felt sick all weekend, and really don't know what to do next. So here I am fretting and porng over the nternet worrying, when I should be spending happy time with my DDs.

Does anyone have advice or know what I should do?

So sorry for the essay.

[MartinaJ]

Normally private to private is much to the risk of the buyer.
However, if they are a business, saving money on ebay by pretending to be a private account (and their books will not really be OK), I'd try again to talk reason with them and then report them to HRMC, documenting what happened and that they probably cook their books by selling on ebay as a private customer.

[RupertPupkin]

Oh no, so sorry. I don't have any advice personally but you might want to repost this in the Ebay forum here, there are some very seasoned sellers and buyers there.

[WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant]

Get on to ebay.

The item delivered is not the item advertised.

Take screen shots and photos.

[OracleofDelphi]

who suggested the private sale? was it you or them? I dont know how ebay would feel about a seller avoiding selling fees.... If I were you I would take a step back and get some proper advice. Can you look on some online forums or contact CAB. Even though you did it outside ebay they offered goods of a certain brand and condition and that isnt what you have received.

Get some proper advice (legal if necc) before you go back to them, or before you return the item.

[Abed]

Ebay won't care, it was a private sale. You need legal advice.

[araiba]

whats it got to do with ebay or paypal as it was a private sale paid through bank transfer?

you need proper advice

[Hairyfecker]

eBay may not care about this sale, but they will care about someone not paying their fees and not declaring that they are a business. Perhaps this could be used as leverage with the sellers?

[PoreofWiner]

i'd get a friend and a van and take it to them myself and not leave until i had proof i'd been refunded

[Niaus267]

Unfortunately in the eBay terms of service selling via private message/email is a no-no, and could result in a suspension of your/their account. I only know this as I've just sold an iPad and was hounded with private messages.

However they do recommend contacting eBay, the police, your credit card company & the courier. pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/transactions-outside-eBay.html

Hope you get sorted.

[Theambler]

Thankyou for your support everyone. I'm now in tears because people have responded.... Go figure!

My dh is going to try calling them again now to reason with them. I'm not sure if its possible to appeal to their better natures.

I don't think ebay will care. Or do much about sellers dodging fees. Certainly nothing that will help me anyway. I once reported a clear fraud i spotted on ebay, and i reported it a week later as ebay did nothing, but they let it stand. I think they just dont have the resources, desire, or enough evidence to do anything quickly.

I think I do need legal advice, i just can't face the long drawn out stress on top of everything else. I feel so foolish. And i'm so cross that someone thinks this is an ok thing to do to someone.

[GooseberryRoolz]

What a shame you didn't go through ebay

Trading standards? He seems to be a trader. You have his address and so can work out his LA area. I'd guess?

[GooseberryRoolz]

There are lots of sharks out there. They don't care.

(If the NC fail is going to cause you a problem, you might want to get the thread deleted and start again)

[Whirlytwos]

Oooops, namechange fail!

Yes gooseberry, i am an utter berk to not go through eBay. Consumer advice group said they were referring it to trading standads as a criminal breach. Not sure how long that takes though.


Dh just called them to appeal to their better natures. They hung up immediately

[ajandjjmum]

I would say that unless they refund - including carriage - you will be straight on to HMRC giving them all the information you have on them, including personal account details.

[LaConnerie]

What utter bastards

Yes of course, it's a shame you didn't pay through ebay, but what's done is done...

Have you asked the CAB for their advice? As others have said, if this man is a trader you could get him investigated by Trading Standards. - or you could possibly make a claim through the Small Claims Court if they won't refund you?

Personally (as they are a business) I would threaten to kick up a huge stink on facebook/twitter/ anywhere else I could think of unless they rectify - worth a try maybe?

Do they have a facebook page for their business?

[SantasLittleMonkeyButler]

Oh, what a shame .

I think most of us have been a little too trusting at one time or another, and often ended up the worse for it. Please don't be too hard on yourself.

I would definitely pursue it as much as you can through eBay. Ultimately, they may not be able to force the Seller to do the honourable thing as you didn't buy through them, but sometimes a Seller knowing that eBay is investigating them is enough to make them have a rethink anyway.

Best of luck .

[LaConnerie]

OP sorry xposted with your latest post - it's good that at least some action is being taken

[LeanneBattersby]

I'd hire a man with a van, follow him up in my car with three of the biggest bloke mates you have and refuse to leave until you have a refund.

It's a bit unorthodox, but I guess it's the best chance you have of getting your money back.

[OracleofDelphi]

dont worry ..... you can fix this. He is a seller on ebay, and selling items worth in excess of £2.5k he isnt going to want that account to be suspended. if it were me, I would email them to say that the item isnt what you requested and has been damaged in transit. I would then state that you wish to return the item but need to seek legal advice first to ensure the item is returned properly and that you are reimbursed.

hopefully since they arent just a random seller in a boot fair, they will realise that they have to fix this, or you will take it further. You are going to have to be firm as if they had a conscience they wouldnt have done this in the first place. You shouldnt have to pay to return an item that isnt what you want / what you ordered and is damaged. Paying for returns is for people who bought the wrong thing, or changed their mind.

Do not return this item before you seek advice, or you could end up £85 worse off again and with no cooker at all.

[MissRabbitHasTooManyJobs]

Yy to threatening to ring HMRC, you have the bank details so that could scare them a bit.
So sorry you've been ripped off, it's awful.
Please don't beat yourself up about it, you've got enough on your plate at the moment.
How do people like this sleep at night? I hope karma comes and bites them on the arse.

[Whirlytwos]

Gooseberry , the namechange fail might cause a problem..... I did a reverse a couple of weeks ago, i didn't know they weren't allowed. The response was immense, alot of people berating me for what they thought i had done, but of course t was a reverse. Actually, i was so glad i posted, it made me realise the issue was not my fault and i was so grateful to all the responders, even though i was being shouted at. Sadly the thread was reported and pulled before i could say it was a reverse. MNHQ wouldn't reinstate it despite my pleas because it was a reverse and a few personal attacks on the reverse persona, so i never got a chance to explain or thank people. And my heart wasn't in doing another thread by way of explanation at the time.

Ajandjj. Hmrc is a very good idea. But Not sure how I play that one without resorting to some form of threat.

Yes laconnerie i jst checked, they are on facebook, but i am not.

[akkakk]

check on ebay - are they selling / have sold more than one of this type of kit?
if so, then it is probably a business sale

• ask them whether they want you to chat to HMRC about how they are trading
  
• explain that as a business and as an online purchase you have consumer rights
  
• explain that if they don't sort out the return within 1 week you will take them to the Small Claims Court
  

If they run a business & are selling multiple items as a private seller, those sales might be considered to be business sales...

i.e. cooker sales as a business, they could sell their home cooker privately -but selling 2 / 3 / 4 over a short period of time is clearly their business

if they have only sold one / have no others on sale - then it is very likely a private sale... in which case - you have very little come back in the same way - if damage occurs through shipping - you / the shipper will hold responsibility as you paid for shipping...

HOWEVER...
If it has a different badge on it then you have been mis-sold and you are in the right all day long - if they won't take it back, take them to the small claims court where you can also charge the extra costs...

you will need the images from the original ebay sale
show that it is marked on ebay as having finished (if they finished it early, even better as it shows they considered it no longer available)
show that it is the only cooker they had for sale...

if they argue they had more than one for sale / there was confusion - then you are back to the original bit here - they are selling as a business, so you have even more rights...

you might have to take them to court (really easy!), but you are undoubtedly in the right and can win this if as you say the cooker is different...

had it been the same cooker model you might have had more difficulty

[Cutecat78]

I don't have any better advice than already given but justcwantbto say I hope you get it sorted OP you sound like you are having a rough ride and don't need this too!

[LurkingHusband]

they are on facebook, but i am not.

Is this worth signing up for ?