to try and get DS onto water at night? Food/milk advice?

(45 Posts)
cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 09:52:41

DS is 17m. He has an allergy to cows milk proteins and as such is on a special formula and soya replacements for yoghurts etc as well as excluding all milk from his diet. He will not take milk from his sippy cup, only water and won't take water from his bottle only milk.

Lately we have had soaking wet nappies on a morning - talking up to the armpits soaked on his vest, pjs and even sleeping bag. He has approx 18oz of milk in the day which ensures he gets his calcium intake for the day.

I have previously tried to get him onto water at night and he was having none of it - screaming, crying, unsettled and refusing point blank - and to have an easier life, we just would put a bottle in his cot and he'd drink this as and when he wanted it throughout the night.

I have noticed lately he is eating a lot more lately. So yesterday for example, a bowl of rice crispies and half a piece of bread toasted with jam on for breakfast at 8ish. A boiled egg, half a piece of toast, yoghurt for lunch at 12ish. He had a fruitpot and some skips for a snack at 3ish and then at 6 he had a portion of pasta with sauce on and a fruitpot then some of our spaghetti and then half a piece of bread with jam on. He had approx 6oz milk between 7pm and 10pm. I then put a 9oz bottle in his cot which was empty this morning. (Unsure of milk intake in the day bbut assume 18oz as per usual). He woke up with wet vest, pjs etc.

He had similar food intake the day before but had a whopping 21oz throughout the night and woke up drenched.

He seems hungry as soon as he gets up approx 6am so we will give him a breadstick/cheerios to munch on whilst we get ready to go out (He has breakfast at nursery/my parents).

Any suggestions on whether the food amount is too little/less and also about milk intake appreciated?

BarbarianMum Tue 02-Feb-16 10:37:48

At 17 mo he doesn't really need milk at night - it's just a comforting habit. I think, if you cut out his milk at night he'll quickly make up for it during the day.

With ds1 (also cmp allergic btw) we replaced me feeding at night with dad going in with a bottle of water. Had a very cross baby for 3 nights - on the fourth he decided water wasn't worth waking up for and slept through, then had a bottle on waking.

OzzieFem Tue 02-Feb-16 10:44:47

I would get his urine tested. You haven't said how old your son is so it's hard to speculate.

Why would I say check his urine? Some of the synptoms of diabetes is an increase in appetite and polyuria (abnormal amount of dilute urine). You don't have to rush him to a GP at this stage try talking to your local pharmacist first.

OzzieFem Tue 02-Feb-16 10:46:14

Oop. Sorry did not understand that 17m was months. blush

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 10:49:41

BarbarianMum I might well try giving it a go. I know when we tried last time it was HELL! sad Perhaps better to try at the weekend?

Ozzie He only seems to pee more in the night, however, he's just in the one nappy for approx 10-12 hours rather than continuous changing in the day.

PicnicPie Tue 02-Feb-16 10:54:17

Yes you need to cut the night time milk. It is not necessary at this age and as pp said seems to be a comfort thing.

My 18mo has her last bottle at 7pm, which is 8oz. This sees her through the night with her having another 8oz upon waking. Sometimes she will have an extra bottle during the day/pm with a snack if her appetite has decreased - teething, colds etc. So typically between 16 and 24 oz per day.

I think your DS just needs to learn to get back to sleep without the milk. So a few days of shh pat when he wakes fr milk, trying again with the water etc.

GenevaMaybe Tue 02-Feb-16 10:58:35

My DD is 16 months old and has:
6.30am bottle 7oz
8am breakfast at nursery (cereal, fruit, toast, water)
11am lunch at nursery (protein meal, fruit, yoghurt, water)
2.30pm snack at nursery (muffin or crumpet or pancake, water)
4.30pm dinner at nursery (vegetarian meal, fruit, water)
6pm bottle 9oz and a piece of toast or some fruit bread
So 16oz milk during the day and as much water as she wants. She sleeps 7pm to 6.30am but if she cries in the night I go in and offer a drink. This is rare, I'd say once a month.

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 11:26:18

Oh I dont know what to do sad I feel mean taking it from him but know I also need to

Stillunexpected Tue 02-Feb-16 11:35:05

It's not mean, he really doesn't need it and at 17 months he must have quite a few teeth so it is terrible for them too to have milk sloshing around them all night.

Kim82 Tue 02-Feb-16 11:39:28

We were having exactly the same issue a month or so ago with my dd who is now 18 months old, she has cmpa too and was having up to 3 bottles overnight but then not eating much through the day. I worked out she was using the bottle as a prop to get to sleep - she had always been an incredibly "sucky" baby and when we tried taking the bottle away at night she just couldn't settle at all.

I decided a dummy was better than sucking milk all night (I had got rid of it when she was about 13 months old but she started sucking a bottle all night instead!). I took away her bottle at bedtime and just kept passing her the dummy. She was very angry the first night, a little unsettled the second night but after that she accepted the dummy back, sleeps through the night as she's not waking wanting more milk and is now eating so much more. I just wish I had done it sooner!

I'll deal with the dummy issue at a later date but at least it's sorted her sleeping and eating issues for now. He just has 2 9oz bottles a day now, first thing in the morning and just before she goes upstairs to bed.

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 11:42:16

Kim82 I'm doomed then as he already has a dummy lol.

Kim82 Tue 02-Feb-16 11:46:20

That should make it a bit easier then I reckon. Just keep passing him the dummy and he'll understand that's all he's getting after a while. My dd just kept throwing it at me the first night but I knew she wouldn't settle without sucking something.

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 11:58:36

Ohhh I can foresee some long nights ahead and me kipping in his room lol

Cheby Tue 02-Feb-16 12:06:40

I wouldn't take it away, but neither would I leave a bottle of milk in his cot with him overnight; it's absolutely dreadful for dental health. My DD is almost 3, and has just stopped having a drink of milk in the night. For the last 12 months or so she has woken once around 2am, one of us goes in, sits with her while she drinks, then takes the bottle (and more recently the cup) away. I felt bad enough about this impact on her teeth (although they are fine) but leaving them to have free access to a bottle overnight is a real issue for teeth (as I'm sure your dentist would explain).

DD has recently switched to water at night time; she was ready and asked for it herself. Her weight is perfect (she's a little skinny actually) so I think she did need the nutrition before then.

Re the wet nappies; I would firstly go up a size. Then maybe change brands if that doesn't work. And are you sure it's definitely wee and not just that he's spilling milk on himself at nighttime? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 12:14:26

Cheby Whilst I appreciate your response, it means we will be up 3/4 times a night with him and leaving it with him, means we can get a decent nights sleep - his bedroom is downstairs so its not just a few steps along the landing. Each to their own on that one.

My son drinks milk and water during the day but obviously isnt asking for water - he's pretty non vocal.

Anyway - no, definitely pee. The nappy is often BULGING. We have tried a different brand and size up and still get the same.

TheWordOfBagheera Tue 02-Feb-16 12:36:51

I just tackled this 2 weeks ago as I'd got to the end of my tether.

I didn't offer water though and I think that's made it easier. There was a bit of crying the first couple of nights and I stayed to offer comfort or brought into my bed so as not to wake sibling. After that, there was waking up and calling 'milk' (but not proper crying) for a few nights. I would explain gently each time that milk doesn't happen at night anymore. After a week milk was all but forgotten and there have now been multiple nights in a row of sleeping through for the first time ever, plus no wet bedding!

Don't overthink the issue of getting enough to eat/drink - they make up for it in the day, even if not instantly. Good quality sleep is just as important. Good luck smile

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 13:13:23

How old is your LO? Bagheera?

Newmanwannabe Tue 02-Feb-16 13:43:06

Milk at night in a bottle is a huge risk factor for tooth decay. It needs to go. I know that's easier said than done. Bagheeras tips are good.

Dental decay is very common in young children. My own dd had to have a crown at age 3. (I'm saying that so you don't think I'm just being a smart arse person behind a keyboard). She didn't have night bottles, but I did give her those "juice plus gummies" vitamin things, and being my first I wasn't as educated in how thorough teeth brushing needs to be, she also has weak teeth.

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 13:45:00

Im just going to have to bite the bullet with water and pray hope it works.

BrokenVag Tue 02-Feb-16 13:50:50

Sounds like an enormous amount of sugar (bread, pasta, milk, fruit, crisps) in your child's diet and not much fibre, protein or vegetables. (Sounds like a lot of food, too. Don't think my DD ever ate that much in one day, even during a growth spurt!) The excessive weeing and another day's worth of milk at night would ring alarm bells for me.

BrokenVag Tue 02-Feb-16 13:51:55

Whilst I appreciate your response, it means we will be up 3/4 times a night with him and leaving it with him, means we can get a decent nights sleep - his bedroom is downstairs so its not just a few steps along the landing. Each to their own on that one.

I'd rather be up a few times at night for a while than have to take my child to hospital at 3 or 4 for dental extractions!

Newmanwannabe Tue 02-Feb-16 13:55:15

Yes you are. Dental bills are expensive... Actually if you are really finding it hard maybe look into one of those sleep training people that come to your house, they might be able to help you out with tips. If you can find the right person for you, the price it costs might be worth it for your long term sleep and sanity

cjt110 Tue 02-Feb-16 14:03:57

BrokenVag Thats an example of one day. He has lots of veg and not so much meat - he doesnt like meat. Do you suggest I take him to the Drs then? And what do you suggest it could be? And I know full well about the dental implications but have failed previously in getting him onto milk. So so you have any advice on how to do it?

Newman I'm not sure the actual sleep is the issue but I did think a PPs post about using the bottle as a crux to get to sleep is perhaps whats happening with us. When I did try him with water previously, he wasnt drinking water at all through the dya only milk so I wonder if it might help that he now happily glugs water?

Newmanwannabe Tue 02-Feb-16 14:21:52

I suppose he's waking at night and then to "self settle" (which sounds like he's very good at), is having his bottle of milk, which is familiar to him, it gets him straight back to sleep. Everyone wakes several times a night, we have mostly just taught ourselves how to go straight back to sleep.

Ideally you want him to learn to settle himself to sleep without any aids as that will set him up for good sleeping through out his life, That's where I thought the sleeping person might help as you mentioned he was up 3-4 times a night looking for his bottle, which was why you left it there for him, as he was happy to take it by himself, not necessarily be given it by you.

I don't have any advice for how you go about all that though, and I am not hinting at all about controlled crying as whilst I think "each to their own" that is not my personal way of parenting.

BrokenVag Tue 02-Feb-16 14:23:10

Yes. I'd either put nothing but water in the bottles, and face the consequences or go cold turkey (no more bottles) and face the consequences. Try and time the first night for one where you won't have to be up early for work the next morning. And get your partner/husband involved too.

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