Another Government announcement on times tables - and how do you think they are going to check?

(182 Posts)
Egosumquisum Sun 03-Jan-16 15:23:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum Sun 03-Jan-16 15:26:33

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VikingVolva Sun 03-Jan-16 15:33:01

It's not so long ago that they fiddled with this bit of the NC. Only faint recollection, but wasn't it 2-3ish years ago, taking it from 10x10 to 12x12 and reducing the expected year by a bit?

A brief computer-based test shouldn't be particularly intrusive. Teachers won't have to set or mark it, though someone will have to do some admin for sitting pupils in front of the terminal, and making sure pupils are correctly identified. (Not even sure if you would need a teacher for that type of admin).

If, as OP says this is completely normal in schools already, then there won't be any need to change any teaching or planning.

noblegiraffe Sun 03-Jan-16 15:36:29

You were supposed to know your tables to 12x12 but it's clear from teaching secondary that many students don't, and that they can still get a reasonable level in their KS2 tests by getting marks in other, less vital areas.

By picking out this skill as fundamental and testing it separately, they are underlining its importance to future study.

I don't think this is a terrible idea. shock

Egosumquisum Sun 03-Jan-16 15:36:57

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PenelopePitstops Sun 03-Jan-16 15:40:06

I don't think it's terrible either.

The emphasis on 12x12 is actually a good thing. 12 has many more factors and means pupils can calculate with time more quickly.

Noble is correct it puts emphasis on further study and the idea that some calculations you should be able to just "do". The amount of time wasted by pupils not knowing these building blocks is scary.

SparklesandBangs Sun 03-Jan-16 15:41:44

Why do we need this? The pupils are encouraged to learn their tables.
DC2 would most likely have failed this test in Y6, no matter hat we tried she just couldn't/wouldn't learn her tables.
She isn't much better now but has got a Maths GCSE A grade and is doing A Level maths.

honkinghaddock Sun 03-Jan-16 15:48:03

All children are not going to know their tables by the end of yr 6.

spanieleyes Sun 03-Jan-16 15:58:58

There soon won't be any teachers prepared to teach year 6 as apparently "teachers will be judged by the results of the test" It's hard enough getting year 6 teachers as it is, this will be another hammer to beat them over the head with!

caroldecker Sun 03-Jan-16 16:14:12

honking There is no reason any NT year 6 should not know their tables.

egosum trustworthy teachers that have children able to pass the test will be fine.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost Sun 03-Jan-16 16:15:00

All children will 'have to' learn their times tables at aged 11. More dicfuckingtation, and what exactly will they do if they don't pick them up by that age. hmm.
You can't have a blanket policy when it comes to children. They're all different and learn at their own pace. It could also instill a fear of failure, which could remain with them for life.
It's a wonder these idiots have not brought back class places . Give it time

sweetvparsley Sun 03-Jan-16 16:41:41

Slight thread derail but how useful are times tables anyway?

I have learned and forgotten my times tables more times than I care to remember. I need to do arithmetic frequently in my job but just pick up a calculator (which now everyone carries around on their phone). I used to be embarrassed but now think of it in the same way as using a step ladder to reach the top shelf - its quicker and safer.

Egosumquisum Sun 03-Jan-16 16:42:39

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Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost Sun 03-Jan-16 16:46:21

In the RW unless you're going into teaching. Who honestly give a flying fuck that 7x7 is 49. I highly doubt anyone has ever or will ever be asked to recite their times tables at a job interview.

whois Sun 03-Jan-16 16:47:52

Well I'm pretty bad at my times tables. I'm dyslexic and have issues with sequencing.

I also have an A in maths A level.

I use simple arithmetic in my job, I always use a calculator.

whois Sun 03-Jan-16 16:48:32

12x is much easier than 8x though I think!

caroldecker Sun 03-Jan-16 16:51:18

Many job interviews have timed maths tests, knowing times tables make these easier.
The test is not 'high stakes' for the children.

Readysteadyknit Sun 03-Jan-16 16:52:30

One major practical problem is going to be ICT and Internet access/speed in rural areas.

Egosumquisum Sun 03-Jan-16 16:53:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

leccybill Sun 03-Jan-16 16:54:40

The computer program needed for these tests will be provided by a private company, of which a major shareholder will be a Govt minister. I'm almost certain of this!

Niklepic Sun 03-Jan-16 16:55:17

What an awful idea. DS has learning difficulties, in particular with regards to maths. He's once again being set up to fail and is already a child with low self esteem.

He's 10 (yr6) and struggles with simple addition, never mind multiplication. They have a times table wrist band award system at his school. He's the only child in his class not to have any.

noblegiraffe Sun 03-Jan-16 16:55:39

There's a maths teacher called Bruno Reddy who is shit hot on teaching times tables. In this blog he says that he has managed to get everyone in his class recalling times tables facts up to 12x12 within 3 seconds, for three years in a row

He uses rolling numbers and a website times tables rock stars (which he came up with himself)

mrreddy.com/blog/2013/02/strategies-for-learning-understanding-and-remembering-the-times-tables/

I suspect that there will be many primary schools across England now looking at his methods.

And the maths results at the school he did this at, King Solomon Academy are unbelievable, in an area of high deprivation.

Narp Sun 03-Jan-16 17:25:17

Knowing your times tables is really important. I think schools should really focus on teaching methods that work. I think there's an ambivalence in my school about really committing to rote learning of TT in class, so that children with very motivated parents, or good memories pick them up. But others are left behind.

There are plenty of children, IME who are held back by not knowing them, despite having a good conceptual understanding of what multiplication and division are.

For those without a conceptual understanding, that should be the focus too. It should not be like it was (for many) when I was a child - rote recitation without understanding

LynetteScavo Sun 03-Jan-16 17:42:26

I learned my tables as a child. I learned them as an au-pair in German. I learned them with DC1 ,DC2 (who has forgotten them now he's in y8) and DC3.

I probably have passed the test aged 8, bit couldn't tell you now what 7x8 is. confusedhmm

HelenaDove Sun 03-Jan-16 18:24:02

Im not a parent but if i had had to face these tests as a child....it would have caused me panic. Im dyscalculic and do get the answers but it takes me a bit longer to work it out than others do.

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