to wonder if anyone has actually Left The Bastard after MN said so, and regretted it?

[JeanneDeMontbaston]

I keep seeing people say that 'LTB' is terrible advice. I know it puts people's backs up, especially when the OP is clearly not in a place to hear anything so blunt, or has a complicated situation that means she clearly can't just dash out of the door.

But I'm confused by the criticisms. Has anyone actually left their partner because other people (not necessarily just MN) said so? And if so, did you regret it?

I admit I'm biased, because MN did tell me repeatedly and firmly to leave my ex - who wasn't a bastard at all, but absolutely wasn't right for me and did have faults I shouldn't have had to put up with. And it was the right thing.

But I wonder, are there people who really do feel they were pressured into leaving a generally good relationship because of trivial faults? Or AIBU to think this is really pretty rare?

[InTheBox]

On balance I don't think many people would just LTB on the back of someone else's say so. MN also told me to LTB, which I eventually did but I've never regretted my decision.

[D0ntLookD0wn]

Second InTheBox's post.

[LionHearty]

When someone on MN says LTB, they don't mean right that very minute! A person does not have to remain in any relationship whether good or otherwise if they do not want to. Women are conditioned to 'hang on, try, try and try again. Then forgive him'.

By the time someone posts on MN relationships board they have tried all the obvious stuff like talking etc numerous times without success. They are posting looking for either a magic bullet or courage to do what needs to be done.

LTB is always an option. It took me three years from first posting about my relationship problems to actually ending it.

Not easy, but not at all a mistake at all.

[AyeAmarok]

If you leave a bastard and regret it, you probably have very low self-esteem or think an awful man is better than no man, I'd imagine.

Usually when people say LTB it's because objective people can see that it's part of a pattern of behaviour that you maybe can't see when you're in it yourself. Everyone should feel loved

[M48294Y]

Jeanne - do you think you would have left him anyway? Presumably you weren't happy as you posted asking for advice.

[doitanyways]

they don't mean right this minute

Actually, sometimes, yes, they do.

[AyeAmarok]

Sorry!

Everyone should feel loved, cherished and supported in their relationship. Of you don't, you should leave, even if other means being on your own long-term.

[NotDavidTennant]

These days there seem to be more posts criticising LTB then there are posts actually saying LTB.

[enderwoman]

Agree with advice already given.

LTB takes time emotionally and practically. For example people might want to save money or wait until a certain event has happened in their family life.

[AyeAmarok]

Women are conditioned to 'hang on, try, try and try again. Then forgive him'.

Yes to this. They also feel like they will be judged for not "trying hard enough", when their DP doesn't try at all.

Two very wise posts on a recent thread:

I now think about the years of my life I spent regret-proofing the life I wasn't living

And

God, won't the world be better when women no longer feel the need to "know I gave it 100%" with a man who has never given more than 60% at his most loved up.

[LionHearty]

Yes, you're right doit they sometimes need to leave that actual minute.

And yes there seems to be much criticism of posters saying LTB recently. Wonder why that is?

[knobblyknee]

Why try to fix him? If he really is a bastard, or doesnt give two shits then why stay?
I kicked him out and never regretted it despite being a single parent. It wasnt easy but it was easier than parenting a man child.

[InTheBox]

And to be fair I think the LTB critics are chasing a straw man. There'd be no point in starting a thread saying "My DP is absolutely wonderful, I feel loved and cherished, anyone got any advice?"

[LionHearty]

How many women are taking ADs when actually to feel better need to just LTB I wonder?

[MadameJosephine]

Although MN never told me directly to LTB I recognised myself in so many of the threads where the OP was told she was worth so much more that eventually it became clear to me that that's what I had to do and so I did, 5 months ago and I have no regrets whatsoever. There are lots of very wise women on here

[LionHearty]

He might not be a bastard, it might be that you're just no longer compatible, the relationship has run it's course. Not every relationship is going to last until death regardless of how great it was.

[doitanyways]

Lion, trust me on this - I've no issue with LTB per se.

The problem is that it overlooks the psyche of a woman (or anyone for that matter) who has been abused for a long period of time.

LTB comes with a side portion of -

Aggressiveness - OP, you've been told on three previous threads to leave this waster and you are persistently ignoring helpful advice!

Guilt - OP, your daughters will grow up with this as a role model and your sons will think this is how you treat women

Scorn - FFS OP grow a pair

Disbelief - OP hasn't listened and actually I don't think I believe her.

The above are hugely damaging because they feed directly into what an abusive man has been telling his partner explicitly and implicitly: that she's useless, a crap mum and no one would believe her anyway.

So after being jeered and scorned on mumsnet, where does she go?

Back to the bastard.

I'm NOT saying the above happens on every thread but it happens on enough for it to be a concern of mine.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

I think the problem is that sometimes some posts can come across as
"Leave now. Right now. Because we say so. Tell us you're leaving right now." for what could be a slight misdemeanour or the OP needs time to get RL support in place first.

I get cross with "Kick him out." like it's easy to do! My ex was an emotionally abusive twat but I couldn't kick him out - I was not under any physical threat, we co-owned the house, I quite simply had no legal right to make him to leave.

[Jux]

A lot of the LTBs are because posters recognise a pattern of behaviour from small clues, and know there is only one way that will go.

Most of the criticism that I've seen is from people who are naive about abuse and don't recognise it, so inhabit the appease/forgive cycle that so many of us are trained into; their advice reflects that. They don't realise that the person in the wrong, the abuser, is not a rational entity and will not respond in a normal way.

There is a thread running talking about the ignorance surrounding dv and abuse. I'll see if I can find it. I think it is incredibly important that women in particular are taught to recognise abuse in its early manifestations and thereby avoid it. Then we'd have much less need of LTB here.

[PrussianPrue]

Holy shit doitanyways you nailed it.

I had a vague idea of that when I read this but you put it so well and succinctly.

[meoryou]

I have been advised to LTB and am currently doing so. Sustained emotional abuse over 14 years

I think I spent a lot of time seeking permission from significant people in my life - because I couldn't figure out how to move on.

Separation plans are now a reality although some aspects are frustratingly slow and prone to delays.

Even though I don't love him, and haven't done so in such a long time, its still an emotional process; grieving for the marriage that never was; punishing myself for not seeing things more clearly, but at the same time, feeling fiercely protective of the children.

Lionhearty mentioned AD's - I've been on them for 11 years - am planning on coming off them in spring/summer. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments and believe there is more than a grain of truth in them.

[ethelb]

I would like to second doitanyways. Thank you for putting what is wrong with those threads so well.

When the woman really need to LTB - that is unpleasantly unhelpful
When you can't really tell the whole story from the OP - it is an hysterical over-reaction.

I've often wondered how and why posters are scornful to these OPs. It is a really odd reaction to most LTB situations.

[starry0ne]

I was in an abusive relationship prior to MN... I didn't tell people what was going on as I expected the LTB expectations...Professionals were aware due to Police involvemnet..

I had a SW tell me she had a number for me should I decide to leave....The day I decided we needed to go I phoned her and wheels set in motion...


I think the point I am trying to make is usually by the time I decided to go I needed advice how to do it... not LTB