to ask about the general attitude to children with behavioural differences

[Francoitalialan]

Inspired by another thread, if you have ordinary non-special needs kids, especially of primary age, and there's a child at school displaying behaviour that's different to the norm, what conclusion do you reach?

Options may include

Not nice
Nasty
Product of crap parents
Rude
Spiteful
Dim
Annoying
Irritating
And also
Autistic spectrum disorder
Attention deficit disorder
Hyperactivity
Anxiety disorder
Dyspraxia
Sensory processing disorder
Auditory processing Disorder
Misphonia
Tourette's

Ad Infinitum.

Where do you generally place your opinion and why?

[PhilPhilConnors]

My son has SN. He is diagnosed HFA/PDA, but holds it all in at school, saving it all for home.
Opinions from others (including teachers I suspect) are that he is manipulative, unkind, and we are crap parents who have allowed him to behave badly.

There is very little understanding, particularly from those who (IMO) should know better.

[UmbongoUnchained]

Initial reaction is "That child is not nice."
But then I think about disabilities and learning difficulties and I don't take any more notice.
I wouldn't allow any child with violent tendencies around my child though, SN or not.

[BackforGood]

I would conclude that don't know anything about the situation, so wouldn't make judgements.
I would continue to talk with my dc about how we encounter ll sorts of people, throughout life, and some are going to be a whole lot easier to get along with then others, but that, ultimately, we can only control our own actions and words, so - if it were causing issues - I'd talk to them about what they could do, or say, in particular scenarios.

[winterswan]

It really depends on the behaviour. I realise that bad behaviour is often explained on here as being down to special needs and it can be, but I do worry that equally we do a disservice to the thousands of children who are actually pretty polite and pleasant with special needs. I grew up with a sibling with special needs who did struggle, sometimes, at school but equally wouldn't have dreamed of behaving in ways I see described on here as being because of that additional need.

That said, they all manifest themselves differently and I do try to be mindful of this.

[SisterMoonshine]

Surely it depends on the behaviour.

[cleaty]

I would feel quite differently about witnessing a one off incident, rather than a pattern of behaviour. One off incident may be understandable if you knew what was happening to the child, or may be a badly behaved child.
With a pattern of behaviour, it would depend what the behaviour was whether I would think SN or badly behaved child.

[DorothyL]

Same here Philphil...
Winterswan, but maybe it was luck more than anything that your brother was able to control his behaviour?

I have two pretty much "perfect" dd's and a boy with sn... Even though I've "proved" myself with the dd's people still think that I am to blame for ds's behaviour

[TwoTonTessie]

My DS has the same diagnosis as your DS Phil. We have had the same opinions from others too . Our parenting was blamed and he was branded 'the naugty child'. Didn't get diagnosed until secondary school age when we finally had a bit of compassion finally shown from professionals,teachers etc. It's tough.

[PhilPhilConnors]

I've found that people expect children with SN to look different. When they "look normal" (not my words), others find it difficult to understand that they have SN.

I also find that when you have a violent child, like I do, you are doubly judged because it's seen as the child choosing to behave like that, and the parents allowing it to happen, when in reality, the child is overwhelmed and out of control and there is no choice involved at all.

[cleaty]

I also used to work with children with special needs. Most were polite and well behaved. Indeed some got very anxious about not following "the rules". The most common misbehaviour was temper tantrums that you would expect in 3 year olds, but not teenagers. Or sitting down on the pavement and refusing to move. You can't physically move a 14 year old, as you could a 3 year old.

[Enjolrass]

Depends on the child.

Dd was severally bullied by a child and it was ignored because of his Sen.

We removed her from the school and put her in another. 6 months later the boy was moved from the old school to dds new school and the bullying continued but worse. It was a forced move (I can't remember the terminology).

Again the behaviour was minimised because of his SEN. Although we found out at this point there was no official diagnosis and he was undergoing one.

It came to a head when dd was hospitalised by him 3 months after he joined her school. At the hospital I broke down and told the doctor all that had happened and they involved the police. The boy was charged. The school were told at a meeting with us the head teachers, their union, the head of governors and police that it was not ok to allow this to continue because he was being diagnosed as SEN.

The union rep and head of governors agreed with the police and the boy was given a 1-2-1. He left dd alone but still lashed out at another child (this was year 6) until police again got involved.

I don't however lump all children with additional needs as the same as this boy.

I don't lump any people into categories so wouldn't because it SEN.

Incidentally dd and this boy are at the same secondary school. The school police officer has again had involvement with him several times for hospitalising other children. He has been given temporary suspension at the end of last week.

I don't want any child who is violent being allow to assault my dd. Regardless of the reasons.

[DorothyL]

So true... Ds has violent verbal outbursts and I get all the looks... People's reactions make me feel quite stabby!

[DorothyL]

Of course no child should be hurt and if this happens it must be stopped.

[PhilPhilConnors]

Enjol, that's awful, your poor dd.
this sounds like the schools involved massively let down both children.
I've seen many times people blaming parents in these cases for not being involved enough and sorting this out, or accused of refusing special school. Too many times schools and the LA seem to work against families in these cases and obstruct and hamper any support that the child should need.
Good support can make a difference, not that I'd know yet .

[Francoitalialan]

My child has sensory processing disorder, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum disorder. He's generally a sunny chap but in times of stress with flap around and make noises. He's not great with turn taking or group games, and socially he struggles. Pre diagnosis he's been described as wilful, stubborn, defiant and obstructive. Thankfully he has a TA who gets him and gets why he needs to jump, run, touch things and people, and signs he's getting upset. Sadly his friends' parents don't, and some have been arses.

Most disappointing was a mother whose child also has similar SN and because my child holds it together in school, decided that her child was "worse" and that whatever was going on with my son is "mild", as though only she was allowed to be an SN mother. Bizarre.

[Quiero]

I work with children with SEBD and am constantly amazed by the ignorance and negative attitude shown towards these children - often from professionals who should know better.

On a recent multi agency training course a TA from a secondary school said she thought that ADHD was a made up illness so parents could get their hands on free amphetamines. FFS

I think it's a bit different for other parents because they often won't know there's a diagnosis or may not be familiar with the diversity of neurological issues. If all they hear from their DC is X is disruptive/lashes out/swears etc, they may not assume BD and just think 'naughty'. There's not a lot you can do about that unfortunately.

[Francoitalialan]

It's hard to know what to say to other parents. I can't actually speak about it without crying anyway. And I don't want him labelled with something either.

[Enjolrass]

phil

I can't blame the parents, I don't know them.

I do blame the parents for trying to get the school to put him back in the small class room near dd while the police were looking into it because it wasnt fair he was suffering. This was for 2 days. Despite the fact that while dd was laid on the floor with blood pouring from her nose he told her he would do it again if she told anyone it was him. I also blame them or trying to block his 1-2-1 supervisor.

I understand they want the best for him, but they couldn't understand why we and the police felt he was a danger.

But I don't blame them for his behaviour.

We never asked for him to be permanently removed we asked he was kept away until the police and school had decided how to make school safe for dd.

[PhilPhilConnors]

Enjol, that all sounds so difficult.
I wasn't saying that you were blaming the parents, sorry if it came across like that.

Dc's old school (moved him a year ago) were dreadful, they used to make allowances for him, but do it in a way that made it feel like a punishment so made things worse, they then twisted it all and were happy to make it look like we'd blocked support and not engaged, which wasn't true.

[Quiero]

Franco some parents are just twats and best ignored

[Enjolrass]

I wasn't saying that you were blaming the parents, sorry if it came across like that.

no you didn't I was just explaining my feelings on the issue of parent blaming.

[CocktailQueen]

Depends on the behaviour! I try not to judge! All kids can be silly and behave in ways that are less than ideal. Heaven knows, my dc are not perfect.

Franco - is it a recent diagnosis for your son? do you think that his diagnosis means he will be able to access specialist help and support?

My friend has a son with severe autism. When he was little she typed out a short description of autism, made several printouts and gave it out to anyone who asked why her ds was behaving like that, or anyone who criticised her/him. Meant they could be educated, she didn't have to explain and risk crying, and she felt better.

[Francoitalialan]

Cocktail Queen, he's been disgnosed in the past year. He's "moderate" and will stay in mainstream school. The support which results from diagnosis is sadly minimal in my area, and certainly nothing you couldn't garner from a bit of background reading. I expected a treatment plan to appear but it hasn't because there's only therapy (murderous to access) and no "treatment" as such.

I'm loathed to hand out cards because he's not so severe and I also don't want to damage his self esteem even further. He's not stupid, and I fear him being treated like he is.

[thornrose]

I'll be honest, before I had a child with SN I had absolutely no experience. No family members or friends with SN. I knew the classic severe autism and Down's syndrome existed and that was the extent of my knowledge.

However, in spite of all of that if I saw a child behaving obviously, differently in the street or supermarket I would've assumed that there was something going on that was driving that behaviour.

It's not rocket science, although it appears to be very difficult for many people to have just a little understanding. I think people are far too quick to make judgements on the parents.

I do remember watching documentaries about violent children though and boy did I have an opinion. "That would never be me" "how does it get to that stage" blah, blah, blah.

Well if you believe in karma (I don't) some would say it bit me on the arse.

My dd has As and dyspraxia plus a few other issues. She's been violent towards me for years. She holds it all in at school and on the whole with everyone except me.

I have learned patience and tolerance and understanding I didn't know I had in me.

[Francoitalialan]

It was the thread about being "forced" to socialise with a child with behavioural problems which made me start this thread - there was an overwhelming cry of "you should be able to choose your friends" which sadly flies straight in the face of kids who struggle socially, and the interventions put in place to help them. But the posters I suspect hadn't thought of that, or hadn't considered the wider implications of not encouraging their children to be friends with children presenting different behaviour.