school football team, anyone know the rules? AIBU (long)

(89 Posts)
MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 17:40:41

Sorry its going to be a long one so as to not drip feed.

Ds Y5, has been picked for his school football team, however was then told today that he is 1 of 3 subs and so this will mean he will play 2 school football games every term hmm

7 boys will get a permanent place each week, (same boys every week) the games consist of 2 x 14min matches each week.

Ds has been told if he "proves" angry himself he will get more play time.

Ds has came home disappointed, and is saying how can I prove myself being a sub every 3 weeks (he may not even get a game when he attends) and is upset, hes also confused about the message the school is giving him, as a boy in his class has been given a permanent place who is known as a bad pupil (warnings, kept in at play time etc...)

Ds is a model pupil,(gets start of the week multiple times, HT award, pupil awards buddy awards etc) he has represented his school and county is many sporting events, (football, swimming. tennis, hockey, and has won each individual competition for the school) he is also a signed academy footballer

He attends the schools football training without fail,(every week) yet two boys who have been given a permanent place don't attend at all, and loudly state they would rather play on their xbox. (they do as the boys who ds is talking about, are in ds non signed football team and we are good friends with the parents) (ds, plays football for two teams, on a Saturday and Sunday)

Now back story me and dh run a U10's football team we are both registered coaches with the FA, what the school is doing goes against everything what the FA and grassroots stand for. I'm also worried about the message that ds has been told he needs to "prove" himself!

Im also concerned about the message ds has been told that 7 other boys are better than him (they maybe, but a 9 year old according to FA and grassroots rules) should NEVER be told this, also where is the TEAM spirit in this, It has already caused a divide in arguments between the boys who have a close friendship outside of the school football world)

I've also looked at the fixture list, so if ds plays his games, he will play in the semi final but not the final.

Ds is saying he does not know if he wants to play, I'm also worried about childcare as me and dh works FT and GP will have to pick ds up at the venue where the football is at, ds has also been told he will fill in for the boys who are sick/injured but again this has made him upset as he's the fall back guy, but yet is not good enough to play for the team...

I am just worried about the message that ds is getting, because who and what does he need to "prove" Ds has asked me to speak to the HT but I am unsure as I don't want to be known as that parent... but yet I dislike the message ds is getting.

It also can't be because he is already a footballer, as the whole team and footballers and in youth league teams.

Also I am not the only one who is unhappy, seen the other sub parents today, who feel exactly like I do, and one is wanting to pull her child out of the school team.

HaydeeofMonteCristo Wed 16-Sep-15 17:50:22

Seems a crazy system to me. Sorry no more help, but I would have thought giving any boys a "permanent" place was a recipe for them not to bother (if that way inclined).

Youth football coaches seem a crazy bunch though.

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 17:59:55

The "coach" at ds school football is not even a coach, or teacher, he is a teaching assistant. However does no training with them... (boys think he is awesome tho) that is done by a company who is paid to come in and play games with the kids (no skill training, just games)

Their is some crazy youth coaches, however majority of them are all decent people tho and do it all voluntary, which is very time consuming.

TantrumsAndBalloons Wed 16-Sep-15 18:02:13

If he is a signed academy footballer surely he can't play for them anyway?

I know DS1 wasn't allowed to play for his school team or any club.

Lilaclily Wed 16-Sep-15 18:07:00

our school has a year 5/6 football team
The best players play in it because the school wants to win
All the other stuff you mention , bad behaviour wtc is irrelevant imo

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 18:16:15

school football precedences over county and country football until school age (so when in football, school games will always be priority), a player if the LA wanted to could stop a child playing and even fine the club in which the child was playing for.

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 18:18:48

Tantrum, no its the other way about, school will always be priority and FA regs will always support the school, some schools will even report to the FA and the clubs will be fined.

Fairenuff Wed 16-Sep-15 18:29:00

Does he play in your under 10s football team OP?

Horsemad Wed 16-Sep-15 18:31:38

Agree that it seems crazy and that also school games take precedence under FA rules.

BackforGood Wed 16-Sep-15 18:44:43

Ridiculous - at that age surely they are playing rolling subs anyhow. How can the "manager" know who is going to be playing well in a month's time, even if he thought it was best to put his 'best' team out.

Wellthen Wed 16-Sep-15 18:48:10

You need to ask the school but before you do, make sure you are clear about the issue. Do you:
Take issue with the fact that he isn't good enough
Disagree that badly behaved children should play for the school
Disagree with the sub system of only playing set matches
Object to the idea of proving himself as you feel he already has.

You can't object to all of these, they are separate. If he genuinely isn't as good as the others and behaviour is irrelevant then, really, you have no leg to stand on. However I agree that this is a terrible message and that's why I would take issue with. The school is there to educate not win matches. They should be educating the boys about teamwork and integrity.

HOWEVER, if they say 'no its all about winning, not behaviour' then I'm sorry but you have you suck it up. No one has a right to be in the team and by mentioning your own team and his academy position you do sound a bit as if you think he has a divine right.

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 19:08:56

Yes, all the boys in the school team do, so ds1 is not an exception.

Ds has been telling his dad who has not long finished work and has just burst into tears, he says he isn't bothered about the 1/3 sub games, what he is bothered about is what he has to "prove" and to who and how, as the coach who coaches his team, does not attend training.

He asked dh does he have to be more good at school (if so how?)
or does he have to prove he can play football...? if so how, he also asked, if they get to the final and win, does that mean when at assembly when the HT asks them to stand up, does he stand up, as he was only at 2 games and could have possibly not have played, he has all these questions going on and is so confused as to what is expected of him.

you can play academy and county, however not play matches on the same day, but you also MUST have managers permission of both clubs to do so, and most importantly not have signed an elite contract.

I would love to see the rules concerning school children, however can't seem to find any on schools. FA and Grassroots yes, but school no.

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 19:17:46

I've mentioned his academy position here, to so show he is a good footballer he is outstanding actually, but then I am biased School would not have a clue that me and dh are FA coaches.

I've just out that here to say it goes against everything that FA and Grassroots stand for. Every child should be treated equally, every child should get at least 1/2 of game time, as at this age its about skill development and confidence, and more importantly FUN

Personally I am worried about the message that it is sending to ds, so I would question that, how can a coach tell ds he needs to prove himself, when he has not seen his play football... and what or who does he prove to...

Ds want to know all I put in my last post.. he is utterly confused by the whole thing, because it goes against everything he has been instilled into him when playing in youth football.

whois Wed 16-Sep-15 19:25:20

Why is primary sport so crazy?

Surely at that stage you have a pretty fluid team and play with rolling subs, and reward those who turn up every week and work hard in training and matches?

I missed the 'trials' for my Y6 sports team because I was injured. Once I was back, and at full fitness I wasn't allowed to have a trial or be a sub because 'the team was decided'. Crazy. I was like, the 2nd best person in the year! (objectively, I was selected ahead of all those people in Y7 to play for the city up an age group and in the A team, none of them even got in to the city quad) #stillslightlybitter

Catonthematwiththehat Wed 16-Sep-15 19:27:17

I'd talk to the school but steer away from the fact that your son is a great footballer.

I would go down the route of you are confused as they seem to be going against FA/grassroots guidance for the age group and I would also ask the question as to what way your son must prove himself and how. The teacher shouldn't be able to say 'prove yourself' if he can't back that up by explaining to the children what it is they are trying to prove.

Catonthematwiththehat Wed 16-Sep-15 19:28:35

I'd also reassure your son that he is a good footballer if he is as there is no point in his confidence being knocked by a policy that doesn't make any sense. Perhaps enxourwge him to focus on the other teams.

RachelZoe Wed 16-Sep-15 19:28:50

My DS is also signed with an academy, he got this at school under one coach who thankfully left eventually, it was essentially a "yeah, you think you're so great I'm putting you on the bench" kind of thing, my DS doesn't have an attitude or anything, the coach just took against him because he was signed. He also said about "proving himself" etc, it was all a weird power thing (you can imagine the kind of wanker who felt the need to get a power trip over a child, wanker).

The majority, like you say, are lovely, there are some people who take it way too far and act like they're managing Real Madrid. It's horrible, and it's not on at all, and like you say, it should be about skills and confidence at that age.

whois Wed 16-Sep-15 19:29:03

Ds want to know all I put in my last post.. he is utterly confused by the whole thing, because it goes against everything he has been instilled into him when playing in youth football.

Can you pull him from the school team since he plays for academy anyway? Doesn't sound like it will be a good environment to be in. Probably be better in his senior school.

TantrumsAndBalloons Wed 16-Sep-15 19:31:28

So have things changed so drastically in the last 5 years then?

I didn't realise. When ds1 first signed to the Tottenham academy 5, no sorry ) years ago aged 10 he was told he couldn't play school or club football at all- we had to sign to say we agreed with that.

spanieleyes Wed 16-Sep-15 19:31:59

Everyone who wants to can come to football club, all are invited to every match we play ( not all children can come but they are invited!!) All those who turn up will play, we run rolling subs. Some children might be on the pitch for longer than others but that is usually down to exhaustion/injury rather than ability.

The joys of a small school!

balletgirlmum Wed 16-Sep-15 19:40:05

My son wasn't even selected for his school team last year (year 6) despite being very dedicated. Hecwas told if he proved himself in PE lessins he might get a chance at Xmas but it never happened.

Surely it's up to the child/parent what activity takes precedence though.

TantrumsAndBalloons Wed 16-Sep-15 19:45:06

balletgirl back when ds first started playing academy football it was entirely down to the academy but I guess things have changed.

Mind you when ds was 8 the u8 team was in a competitive league which isn't the case anymore thankfully

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 19:56:08

Tantrums, school football always took precedence even when I played football back in primary and high school, and I am early 30's.

Your academy broke FA rules, its been a ruling since forever, however the Russell Foster League/FA made headlines in 2013/14/and 15 after they enforced the academy rule in all youth football. Causing some youth clubs to fold.

It was always a ruling, but some clubs turned a blind eye to it, however it was only enforced until the start of 2013.

BoneyBackJefferson Wed 16-Sep-15 19:59:51

School teams are pretty much a law unto themselves, the "bad boy" playing football has always been an issue and annoys teachers as much as parents.

MsJamieFraser Wed 16-Sep-15 20:05:06

whois, I would if that's what ds wants me to do, he has training/games 6 days a week for up to 3 hours a day... so tbh a extra hour is neither here nor there tbh.

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