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AIBU?

to think that BTL landlords are morally dubious...but Air BnB landlords are worse

46 replies

vulgarbunting · 03/09/2015 19:52

I live in an apartment block in central London. There must be around 200 apartments, of which I would estimate based on who I see coming in and out of the building, that around 50% of those are rented out to tourists on Air BnB.

So that is 100 apartments that would otherwise be either rented or bought by London residents, ultimately driving up rent prices in the building. And that is 100 fewer families per week using the local B and B's/hotels so screwing local business and jobs over.

Air BnB landlords don't have to follow the same legislation (i.e. fire safety rules) that actual BnB's/hotels have to, so those businesses can't afford to compete in the market.

In addition, it is all arranged online, so the Air BnB landlords have no idea who they are renting to. In the case of where I live, they leave their keys with the concierge so may never even meet the people that they are renting to. A few months back there was a party thrown in my building by some Air BnB tenants which was so large the police couldn't control it.

I really feel that if BTL is considered dodgy territory morally, then those landlords making a profit out of Air BnB are far far worse.

OP posts:
Toughasoldboots · 03/09/2015 19:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsBertMacklin · 03/09/2015 20:00

If you live in a leasehold flat and people are renting their flats out as holiday lets, there is a very good chance that this breaches the 'Permitted Use' of the flat as set out in the lease, which will probably state that the flat is to be used as a private residential dwelling by one household.

In short: grass them up to your Managing Agent.

Cherryblossomsinspring · 03/09/2015 20:02

Why is an air bnb earner lower than a b&b earner? Both are individuals trying to make some money. Have i missed something?

Maybe the b&bs should restructure as air bnb. And the hotels offer something different. I think you are worrying about this unnecessarily.

Actually I don't really get your post other than it being another dig at BtL landlords.

LyndaNotLinda · 03/09/2015 20:04

I think there should be additional legislation for people renting out an entire appt/house as AirBnB for prolonged perioed. A lot of Air BnB people are just doing it for a while to cover their mortgage/rent while travelling or instead of having a permanent lodger.

LyndaNotLinda · 03/09/2015 20:08

Cherryblossoms - there are all sorts of fire regulations that B&Bs/holiday lets/BTL have to follow which protect tenants (however short a duration they may be staying) and, in a multiple occupancy building, other people in the building. AirBnB LLs don't have to follow any of those rules.

vitaminC · 03/09/2015 20:51

My DH is on the dole right now and we are struggling to pay our mortgage and feed our hungry teens. We are considering renting out our spare room on Air BnB to help make ends meet.
Nice to know that makes us morally dubious! Hmm

SaucyJack · 03/09/2015 21:09

Air b'n'b customers have a choice whether or not to use the service tho. A holiday is not a necessity in the same way that a roof over your head is.

DrDreReturns · 03/09/2015 21:20

I'm staying in an Air b'n'b place for a night next weekend. I'll report back on whether the landlord is a scumbag!

museumum · 03/09/2015 21:25

Well it's not b&b if it's a self catering empty flat is it? Can you let flats on airb&b? The only people I know who do it do it as actual b&b - in other words they live there too and serve breakfast.

ijustwanttobeme · 03/09/2015 21:27

I know you're talking about flats in London, but I've just come back from the U.S., having rented an apartment via airbnb.

There was smoke alarms, fire extinguishers etc so I think there must be some basic legislation surely. As there would be in a regular b&b type set up.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 03/09/2015 21:28

I think the lack of regulation is more worrying with Air BnB holiday lets than with B&B type, where the landlord is there in the house should anything go wrong.

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 03/09/2015 21:41

Well it's not b&b if it's a self catering empty flat is it? Can you let flats on airb&b? The only people I know who do it do it as actual b&b - in other words they live there too and serve breakfast.

Er yes you can list flats, whole houses and villas on air b&B in fact that seems to be the majority of the site. Have you never been on it?! It may be called b&b but it doesn't mean it the dance you do! It's more for long term borrowing of houses and kind of holiday lets.

I've wondered about the lack of regulation, but you get unscrpioulos LL in every sector of the Let market you also get some bloody good ones it's unfair to tar all Air b&b letter with the same brush as it would be un fair to tar all BtL and private LLs

StackladysMorphicResonator · 03/09/2015 21:46

Ooh, it's definitely a night for Grady threads!

vulgarbunting · 03/09/2015 21:59

Not a goady thread! Ok maybe a goady thread. I'm just grumpy that I am being forced out of a city that I love because I can't afford to buy, and that my apartments are constantly full of tourists who think Im there to solve their problems with the random flat I have hired.

Also, there definitely is not any specific legislation in the UK. The government is trying to jump on board the 'sharing economy' boom so don't care. There was a R4 program on it :)

OP posts:
vulgarbunting · 03/09/2015 21:59

*they have hired

OP posts:
redstrawberry10 · 03/09/2015 22:52

i've stayed in a few airbnbs, and yes, the lack of regulation is a problem. No just for safety, but it gives them a competitive edge on their competition.

I think it shows that some of the regs can go. Like with black cabs, I am not interested in paying for someone who knows every street.

But why are they evil? Like BTLs, they are just trying to make money. The evil people are in government, preventing houses being built.

MrsJorahMormont · 03/09/2015 22:59

I don't object to people letting a room in their house as they already have the right to do that but I do think that Air BnB need to look at the letting of whole apartments / houses. I don't think it's in the spirit of the site somehow.

manicinsomniac · 03/09/2015 23:02

Actually, I agree with you.

I love airbnb and find it a really great, cheap way to get to know a city and sometimes some cool people too - but I didn't actually know you could get an empty flat. I've always stayed with people in their homes.

I wouldn't have a problem with a few whole houses/flats being let but it sounds like it's becoming quite a large scale thing and that people are buying properties specifically to let as airbnb - and that isn't on in areas where housing is so short

MrsJorahMormont · 03/09/2015 23:05

There was a programme recently about a similar issue in Barcelona - that whole neighbourhoods are being taken over by landlords letting illegally to tourists. It's causing huge resentment for locals who cannot find places to live plus the LLs in question are undercutting the registered, licensed tourist lets which meet safety regulations. It's not really surprising that London (another expensive, popular tourist destination) is developing the same problem.

Duckdeamon · 03/09/2015 23:07

It's inaccurate to argue that flats let on airbnb would not otherwise be available to local residents.

If there were safety problems with this kind of rental it would have hit the news. Perhaps the accommodation industry is over regulated?

redstrawberry10 · 04/09/2015 00:01

I don't think it's in the spirit of the site somehow.

it's not airbnb's job. it's the government's job to clarify the law.

MrsJorahMormont · 04/09/2015 00:03

Duck I don't know about the London flats but the Barcelona flats quite often didn't meet safety standards - just basic things like smoke alarms. Using AirBnB also made it hard to identify them so private investigators were having to either pretend to book them or watch the suspected flats to get evidence of tourists coming and going.

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HaydeeofMonteCristo · 04/09/2015 08:18

I can't get past loving air bnb as a "customer" going on my hols, so an I'll thought out yabu from me!

Queeltie · 04/09/2015 08:42

Air bnb started off as a rent out a spare room occasionally to tourists. Increasingly people are doing it as a business. So it should be regulated in the same way as other holiday accommodation, maybe with an exemption if you let it out for less than 4 weeks a year.

TheCatsMother99 · 04/09/2015 08:46

Definitely let the managing agent know.

They're likely to be breaching a lease term and if you're in Central London there are some councils who don't allow properties be rented out for anything less than 30 days.... Kensington and Chelsea and Islington council to name a couple.

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