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AIBU?

IT/computer science - academic question - AIBU to do an undergrad rather than a conversion master's?

8 replies

pomBearPooPouffe · 01/09/2015 00:43

Computery types, or academic types generally - please help!

I am switching fields to IT/CS because I can't get a job as an academic biologist, but there are plenty of jobs around in IT and CS/maths/stats type research & development. I was planning to do an undergrad degree majoring in computer science, with maths and stats subjects.

The CS/IT/maths people here reckon that with a previous career* as an academic biologist, I should just do a one-year master's by thesis and attend a few high-level undergrad courses in maths and computer science. They all say undergrad is unnecessary.

I think this is ridiculous, because I have no useful background whatsoever in maths, stats or CS. I honestly have no idea how any of it fits together. While CS isn't maths (except in a few areas) it assumes basic competence with things like calculus, geometry, matrix algebra etc. - most of which I've never done and have absolutely no clue about.

I did badly in the "maths for idiots" option at school, I flunked first year maths at university (56 % in the "maths for biologists" stream, probably because I went to almost no lectures and did no assignments); and I've never done any statistics at all beyond the complete basics taught to biologists. As for CS, I've done a couple of very basic introductory programming courses (Python, BASH) and really enjoyed them. I've always been the most analytically-minded person who "gets" how to deal with data, in every biology lab I've worked in (which of course isn't saying much when you think about the analytical skills of most biologists). However, being able to follow the first 3 chapters of a Python textbook isn't "having a background in programming", it's parroting syntax without understanding a word of what's going on.

I think that if I followed the advice of doing a masters, I wouldn't understand a word of what they were talking about in a 3rd year undergrad class in maths or CS - I can't even really remember how to do basic high school stuff like quadratic equations or calculus. I do think I'd survive undergrad maths and stats because I can pick stuff up quickly when I need to, but I do think I'd need to do the full undergrad degree to have the faintest clue what's going on.

Am i mad or are the people offering advice just not thinking through precisely how much maths etc. they did themselves at high school level? My DH for example did university maths while at high school, as did many of his friends and colleagues - he genuinely doesn't seem to understand that there are fully-functioning academics out there who don't know how to solve a quadratic equation...



*Previous career = working in academia as a biologist since 1998, PhD awarded in 2004, postdocs for 7 years, got to lecturer level with lots of experience, but couldn't get made permanent because of lack of jobs available here, went back to postdoc-ing, hated it, gave up. Could probably get a job as a biologist if I were in the UK, USA, Europe etc., but not where I currently am, as there are too many biologists here and few jobs generally.

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seaweed123 · 01/09/2015 07:04

Hard to say without being able to compare the two courses. However, when I was doing my undergraduate degree, I used to see a lot of msc conversion students. They did elements of my 2nd year (4 year degree) and a project. So actually probably pretty easy to pick up, though it missed the more interesting in depth areas from 3rd and 4th year.

At the time we were fairly scathing about these folk, doing a half arsed version of our degree and then being able to compete with us in the jobs market. However, in practice, some of the best people I've worked with since have went that route.

I don't know much about academia though - I wonder if an msc would be fine for practical application in industry, but the degree would be better for moving into academic roles in that area?

Is there an option to do a compressed degree over 2 years?

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OddBoots · 01/09/2015 07:17

Do you even have the option of doing an undergrad degree? It is very expensive to do if you already have a degree as the rules on funding have changed.

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pomBearPooPouffe · 01/09/2015 07:33

OddBoots - I'm overseas. It's not free here, but it's not like the UK either, thankfully.

seaweed123 - to be honest, I think the 1-year conversion course here is not a degree that should be competing with undergrad here or with conversion degrees in the UK. Where I used to be in the UK, the CS conversion course had a failure rate of about 80% because it was properly rigourous. Here almost everyone passes, which makes me deeply suspicious.

No option for affiliated-type 2 year compressed degrees here. So it's either 1-year, of which I am suspicious; or 3-year/4-year with honours. It costs about 2500 pounds a year here, so not impossible with one of us working, but 5000 or 7500 pounds is a lot of money to chuck away if a 3 or 4 year degree is really worth the same both educationally and in the job market, as a 1-year conversion course.

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GloGirl · 01/09/2015 08:11

My DH (good career in CS) says that it sounds a little bit like as you are an academic sort it is tempting for you to do the undergrad course.

Just getting the masters is a short cut of course, you will be stuck for some things so you'll need someone to catch you up. You might need to spend more time learning background - but you will also save yourself a LOT by not reading up on things in an undergrad course you will never use and have no intention to.

We both think it sounds like you should just do the masters plus more time on whichever area you'd like to go into. I think you will need a mentor of someone in the know though.

Neither choice is wrong.

What area of IT/CS are you thinking? What job would you like?

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Ironfistfunkymum · 01/09/2015 08:16

I think you should do the masters if you don't mind entering an IT job at a lower level where you can learn a lot. It jobs for me have always been easy to get.

Anyway it is very broad. What exactly do you want to do?

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UnfortunateUsername · 01/09/2015 09:49

I would try the masters first and see how you get on. AFAIK it's designed to take into account the fact that not everyone has a thorough background in the subject. I know a few folk that did this successfully despite having barely used a computer for more than word before. As a pp said, the experience you gain on the job after your degree will be the main source of your ongoing skillset. I'm a software developer and I would say that my undergraduate degree did little more than give me the basics.

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pomBearPooPouffe · 01/09/2015 11:45

GloGirl, IronFist, UNfortunate - thanks for your perspectives. I do worry that a master's thesis (i.e. not formally organized teaching) would leave me too poorly generally educated for me to get software-ish jobs. I could design a masters to get myself into the area of handling medical data (sequence stuff or epidemiological stuff), which is what I'd like to do, but then it's not obvious a job will come up at the right time for that.

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UnfortunateUsername · 01/09/2015 12:13

For that type of work is it possible you would be better to look at a statistics or data analysis degree? As it happens I've worked for a company in this field and most of people doing what you've described started out from that sort of degree (which I believe would cover the basics of the computing based skills too) and picked up the rest on the job. There were some who also came from software development and then crossed over too. Is there a careers advisor you could possibly talk too?

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