To think that if you have any self-respect you go halves?

[Babycham1979]

I've just read this pretty cringey (and very American) article in the Guardian

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/aug/27/dating-men-paying-bill-gender-equality

And can't help but feel sorry for these losers guys. Surely, an expectation that a man pays takes us back a hundred years? Equality means equality.

Where's your self-respect, sisters?!

[ImperialBlether]

I read that, too. I was really shocked at how many women didn't even acknowledge the fact there was a bill!

I wonder how much depends on age. If a female student goes on a date with another student, surely she doesn't expect him to pay for everything, does she?

[SewSlapdash]

I'm really appalled by how many of my friends think this is acceptable - when they would be spitting feathers at any suggestion they should be paid less than men.

[ilovesooty]

I seem to remember that the last time this came up there was a disconcerting number of posters who expected the man to pay.

[vvviola]

When I went on my first date with DH, he bought us drinks. Then nearly fell of his chair when I stood up a while later and said I'd go to the bar for the next round. He had never known a woman to get a round in on a date or even later on in relationships.

I was astounded. While I would consider it a nice thing to do to occasionally treat a woman you are dating to dinner/drinks/tickets to something. I would never have dreamed of not paying my way.

sometime I swear it's why he married me

[Katedotness1963]

Hmmm, not sure how I feel about this. If you do the inviting shouldn't you be the one to pay? Then again if you get invited out and the other person pays wouldn't it be normal to say "next time's on me"?

[domessycated]

I expect the man to pay on a proper first date, i.e., he has approached me and invited me for dinner or whatever. This used to happen in the olden days, when you really only met people through friends and a first date was also the departure point of monogamy.

However, on an internet date I definitely offer to pay half or all of a bill because by its nature it's more of a numbers game.

That said, I met DH on an internet date and he paid for absolutely everything for a couple of weeks-worth of dates with lots of champagne and nice dinners - we then went on to a much fairer system that took into account our incomes.

Life is too nuanced, in my humble opinion, for something like that to 'set women back a hundred years'. Respect and equality is not built or destroyed off the back of a bought dinner. The early part of a relationship that is going places is not 'normal operation' and some rules can be suspended so that romance can roll without nitty gritty calculations. It's a bit like shopping at the airport

[StealthPolarBear]

I actually think this sort of thing is worse now than when we were young (assumes everyone is mid 30s).
When I was young I was aware of all this stuff but in a historical sense, things much older ladies probably expected. I was never in any doubt I was a person in my own right, would earn my money and either have a male partner or not.
Yet I do feel like now I seem to be seeing a lot on mn and in rl about men being the providers, women doing what their husbands say. This is the mild end of that wedge imo.
DH and I joke about who is "treating" the other when we go out with exaggerated thanks - ir all comes out of the same pot. Before we were married we helped each other financially and otherwise. But I didn't have the expectation (and don't remember it only peers) that there was a man's role and a woman's role. When did things change? Or am I just friends with different people?

[StealthPolarBear]

Do mess I'm happy with he invites, he pays. Presume that works in reverse.

[TheFlis12345]

I think it depends on the circumstances. If a guy asked me out for dinner as a first date, I'd assume he was going to pay as he had done the inviting, but I'd make sure I got my share of rounds in a bar or similar.

In the US though it is VERY different in my experience. I was dating a guy when staying there for a bit and he insisted on paying for virtually everything. In fact, one time, I'd been out with friends and we'd racked up a bill of about £50 a head for food and drink by the time he arrived later. He had one beer before the bill for the group came. I paid our share while he was in the loo and when he came back he was really offended. I explained that no way he should cover my night out with friends because he had joined (mainly to pick me up!) at the end but he was genuinely upset about it. I thought it was ridiculous but when I mentioned it to other male friends the next day they agreed with him and said they would find it emasculating!

[ilovesooty]

I'm a lot older than my mid 30s and would always expect to pay my way.
That would include a date where I'd been invited out.
Considering men still do most of the inviting I think not offering to pay your share of the bill is really rude.

[x2boys]

i always went half on dates but i had a friend who expected the man to pay and felt she should only have to offer to buy one drink if she felt like it!

[minionwithdms]

I always offer to go halves. If they insist on paying, I make sure I pay the next time. It's only fair. That said, I am a skint student so I think it would be horrible to expect others in my situation to pay for me.

[Scarydinosaurs]

I have always taken the attitude that if you ask the other person for the date, that you pay.

This works nicely, as then you pick the date to match your budget and I've never had any complaints from the blokes I've dated.

[rollonthesummer]

I haven't been on a date since being a student (when we were both students, I mean) and then it was definite a 50/50 thing-generally nights out were based round who had the most money that night!

[x2boys]

when i met dh i was earning considerably more than him it would of been completley unfair to expect him to pay for dates.?

[BrandNewAndImproved]

I've been dating recently and I've bought a round after he bought a round, another date we had food which he insisted on paying for so I bought puddings after. I think that was quite fair considering they asked me out.

[RaskolnikovsGarret]

Women should always pay halves. If the date absolutely insists otherwise, then maybe that's fine, but the starting point is we pay our way. Anything else is just greedy and appalling. The fake reach for the purse referred to in the article made me cringe.

[Osolea]

I wouldn't ask a man out on a date, so in my mind, if a mans doing the asking, then he's doing the paying.

I haven't been on a date in a long time, but I'd probably be one if the 'fake reachers'. Because I accept that I should pay my way, but if a man didn't protest at me paying, then there probably wouldn't be a second date. In reality, that never happened though, and if a man does want to pay then I think it's rude not to accept graciously.

[WorraLiberty]

I've always gone halves with anyone I've eaten out with, regardless of whether they have a penis or not.

As others have said, it's fine if that person totally insists. You just make sure you pay next time.

[WorraLiberty]

You don't sound as if you accept that you should pay your way at all Osolea

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

My 19 year old daughter had lots of friends who think that the man should pay for everything.

I have brought her up to pay her own way and she has found lots of guys are quite taken aback by this. However she gets lots of, "Let me take you out and buy you dinner and spoil you" and even, "Let me take you shopping", type invitations, which, we both agree, are frankly quite creepy and loaded with expectation.

Lots of her friends think she is mad though and even that she should trade up her penniless student boyfriend.

[Foreverconfused]

I'm torn. I would say if you do the inviting then you pay ,and in my experience it's always been the man to do the asking. However , when I ask friends out for dinner we naturally assume we're paying for own meal. Only been a few dates in my time ,but have always at least taken my purse and shown I'm more than happy to pay my half. Or if we were doing meal and cinema and he insisted on paying for the food ,then I'd pay for the cinema.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

I find its telling that those that say whoever asks pays and then generally say that they expect to be asked out.

Wouldn't it be more honest to say that you expect the man to pay.

Besides if it became the norm to split the bill there would be a lot less serial daters.

[iAmNicolaMurray]

Yanbu op. I always split the bill when I went on dates. If someone was really insistent that they'd pay for dinner then I'd always buy the drinks.

Tbh it pisses me off that some women think men should pay it all. I agree, it sets women back.

[Tiggeryoubastard]

Hat Worra said.
Cheap price for your self respect.