To be shocked that incontinence is ignored under PIP

(134 Posts)
larant Sat 11-Jul-15 14:34:20

I have urinary incontinence to the point that I wear nappy like pads all the time. I still have accidents and if I am away from home for long, carry spare clothing as accidents are not uncommon. However under PIP, this is totally irrelevant.

summerainbow Sat 11-Jul-15 14:35:43

Are you sure

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 14:36:39

Its what I have been told. Happy to be told if they are lying to me.

Iwasinamandbunit1 Sat 11-Jul-15 14:41:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 14:45:16

Yes, and had an interview. I have other issues too. They weren't interested in the incontinence at all.

unweavedrainbow Sat 11-Jul-15 14:47:11

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

Incontinence is Question 5. You can get 8 points, which is enough for Standard Rate Care, on incontinence alone.

x2boys Sat 11-Jul-15 14:49:49

would it not come under personal care ? I Have a five yr old son in nappies due asd and learning disabillity the reason why he was awarded DLA[ i realise its different as he is a child] care component is because he needs frequent care with toileiting throughtout the day.

ghostyslovesheep Sat 11-Jul-15 14:50:53

6 points - urine only - it is counted

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 14:51:11

I thought it only counted if you actually need someone to help you with it? That is what the woman who interviewed me told me. Is that not true?

Sirzy Sat 11-Jul-15 14:51:48

If you have been refused appeal the decision.

PausingFlatly Sat 11-Jul-15 14:53:12

No, 8 points is if you need someone else to assist with managing your incontinence.

At (5a) it's possible to score 0 while being incontinent, so I'm guessing pads don't count as an "aid or appliance" either.

5. Managing toilet needs or incontinence.
a. Can manage toilet needs or incontinence unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to manage toilet needs or incontinence. 2 points.
c. Needs supervision or prompting to be able to manage toilet needs. 2 points.
d. Needs assistance to be able to manage toilet needs. 4 points.
e. Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of either bladder or bowel. 6 points.
f. Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of both bladder and bowel. 8 points.

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 14:55:14

Yes that is what I was told. Because i can manage it by myself, it doesn't count. The extra costs incurred are irrelevant.

IHaveBrilloHair Sat 11-Jul-15 14:56:35

I have just done a reassessment over the phone as they took away all my care DLA, I used to get high rate.
You need to need another person to help for it even to be considered.
I should know in a couple of weeks if it's successful.

unweavedrainbow Sat 11-Jul-15 14:57:57

Basically, yes. Have a look at the link I posted, it explains the criteria for the level of points you're awarded. If you don't need "help" (ie prompting or support or physical assistance) you can get a maximum of 2 points for using an "aid or appliance" which would include pads or commodes or anything you use to manage your incontinence or clean yourself. Remember, that help or assistance would include any help you need to clean yourself after any incontinence or to clean anything else (eg bedding or clothes).

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 14:59:16

Thanks, I do get help to wash my clothes. I hadn't even thought of that.

unweavedrainbow Sat 11-Jul-15 15:09:08

Pads count as "aids or appliances". "Aid or appliance" has a legal definition www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/glossary/1987-what-does-aid-or-appliance-mean-for-personal-independence-payment-pip which effectively means a thing used by disabled people to improve a function lost through a disability. I would suggest that raised toilet seats, stoma bags and bottom wipers are also included. It is also possible that, as the legal definition of "aid or appliance" includes protheses, colostomy bags would also count.

PausingFlatly Sat 11-Jul-15 15:13:18

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me.

It's all of a piece with their original thinking about powerchairs - that if you can use a powerchair or scooter or adapted car, then you don't need PIP.

Because powerchairs and scooters and adapted cars are left free by the fairies at the bottom of the garden, obvs.hmm

I think someone haddocked them about that, but clearly the mindset survived.

PausingFlatly Sat 11-Jul-15 15:14:09

Sorry, I'm being unhelpful.

unweaved has a lot of good advice.

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 15:18:04

She only asked me if I needed someone to help me go to the toilet, or if I had bars round the toilet to help me get off an on the toilet. She wasn't interested in anything else. They have also basically accused me of lying about other needs, even though the interviewer could see for herself my obvious physical disability.

Jasonandyawegunorts Sat 11-Jul-15 15:22:36

I've just had a really terrible PIP interview too OP.
My first time trying to get any kind of help and it's awful.

Becca19962014 Sat 11-Jul-15 15:25:32

Yes it is because the pads are considered aids and it will be the same if you appeal.

My local authority now refuse to provide such things on the nhs (I think they will provide one for the first six months or so) or via social services, people who are incontenent must pay themselves, ironically, out of their 'extra money for being disabled'. Even the physiotherapy that can help has been severely rationed - again to paid for from the extra money given hmm

pausing can I borrow your fairies at the bottom of your garden? Mine are refusing to hand over the cash anymore grin

larant Sat 11-Jul-15 15:28:24

Jason I empathise. It is my first time trying to get any help and I only applied because others kept saying I should apply. I get incontinence pads from the NHS. You only get them free here if your incontinence is very bad.

PausingFlatly Sat 11-Jul-15 15:31:26

Blimey, that's the total list of PIP questions on that link. They're rubbish!

Not exactly designed to elicit a full picture of "stuff you can't do", are they?

Eg
8. Reading and understanding signs, symbols and words.
a. Can read and understand basic and complex written information either unaided or using spectacles or contact lenses. 0 points.
b. Needs to use an aid or appliance, other than spectacles or contact lenses, to be able to read or understand either basic or complex written information. 2 points.
c. Needs prompting to be able to read or understand complex written information. 2 points.
d. Needs prompting to be able to read or understand basic written information. 4 points.
e. Cannot read or understand signs, symbols or words at all. 8 points.

For me the answer to that Q is "none of the above".

On bad days, I struggle to retain information. But neither an aid nor prompting is going to change that. I understand what an individual sentence means as I'm reading it, but I won't have any recall a minute later. So I can't read and subsequently make use of complex written information - but nor can I say I "don't understand it" at the moment I'm reading.

Bleh. Have to use politician's answers: don't care what you asked, here's what I'm going to tell you.

kali110 Sat 11-Jul-15 15:32:32

Iv been refused and i have fibmilogia and need help with lots of things. I was refused because i couldn't give them an exact amount of days i need help!
The fact that my anxiety has suddenly got so terrible it can take me an hour or more to leave the house and thats not the worst thing doesn't matter.
Also apparently i dont need help with directions even though if i have to go somewhere iv never been i have to have someone take me.
The women who did the assessment was so insensitive towards mental health it was a joke.
Pip is a joke.

Becca19962014 Sat 11-Jul-15 15:33:55

Do consider an appeal on other grounds though, I hadn't seen you had other disabilities as well but be prepared for similar problems.

In our disability group I know many who have been turned down - and it's the criteria for the use of aids that does it. If you have supports to help you off the toilet its ignored, one person who struggles with sticks and has no space where they live for a wheelchair was turned down because the test applied for 'moving' included her using an imaginary wheelchair - that she has no space for one was irrelevant - both these people and are waiting for appeals but that won't be for a very long time in my area.

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