To have wanted to intervene

[prorsum]

There's a man who sits outside a local newsagents asking for money. He's been there fairly regularly, sometimes I give him a quid or 50p, sometimes I walk by.

He sits and intermittently raises his hand as people walk by and will ask for change, he's not in your face. Today I chose to walk by but a man behind me went ballistic on him. Telling he worked hard for his money and why should we pay for him. It was the we that really got, the way he dragged the rest of the people on the street into it. Nobody took any notice of him, just let him rant and walk away. I did want to challenge him though but he was in a rage and so frankly was I, other reasons, so thought better to let it go.

[WorraLiberty]

How could you be unreasonable to want to intervene?

Or do you mean were you unreasonable to ignore it?

[prorsum]

I do feel quite bad about ignoring it. I feel it might have unreasonable to intervene because though I do see it as an attack on a vulnerable person, it was fleeting, and non violent. I had other things on my mind.

The man is a complete dick and on another day I would have said 'who is this we you're talking about?

[Alanna1]

I'd have been tempted to walk up and give the man some money. Actions speak louder than words sometimes.

[prorsum]

Didn't have any on me.

[ImprobableBee]

Begging is illegal... Some people will sometimes get a bit irate about being targets of criminal activity.
Either way, unless you're an on-duty police officer or community support, it's not really your business to tell other adults how to comport themselves in public. It's not unreasonable to feel the urge though.

[sadwidow28]

It was not 'fleeting' according to your OP

a man behind me went ballistic on him. Telling he worked hard for his money and why should we pay for him. It was the we that really got, the way he dragged the rest of the people on the street into it.

The man was unreasonable as far as I can see. There but for the grace of God.....

However, I never give money to the homeless but I buy a sandwich and a bottle of water. I will never give the homeless a way to buy drink or drugs.

I would also be concerned about a person who regularly presents himself in the same shop door way which is a local shop - frequented by young children shopping alone. There are support mechanisms that can be put in place if you can find your local numbers.

[prorsum]

Targets of criminal activity? Seriously?

[ImprobableBee]

The Vagrancy Act 1824

The shouting man had an opinion you disagreed with. Walking away was the right thing to do IMO.

[ItsTricky]

The shouting bloke is an absolute bastard. A rant like that could tip the homeless guy over the edge, although sadly, he probably gets that a lot.

I'd probably not get involved either, op, too scared that it may turn violent - especially if I have my kids with me.

Poor bloke

[AgentProvocateur]

Sadwidow, what harm do you think he would cause to "young children shopping alone"?

[PeppermintCrayon]

I don't mind if homeless people want to spend money on drink to help them block out the cold.

I have challenged someone in this situation, told him he was lucky and shouldn't bully someone else who didnt have what he had. The homeless guy he was harassing thanked me and it was well worth it just for him to feel someone gave a shit.

[Aermingers]

There was quite a high profile case recently about a man who travelled down from the north to Park Lane to beg to fund a very comfortable lifestyle in addition to a council flat and benefits. Local genuinely homeless people also claimed that he intimidated and threatened them to stay away from his 'patch'.

My Dad used to work in Elephant and Castle and often saw people who were in the underpass begging going to buy CDs and electricals like hifis after they had been been begging because supposedly hungry and homeless.

When I worked as a barmaid in London I used to be sitting waiting for the nightbus at the end of my shift and the woman who had been begging at cashpoint next door used to flounce past me and jump in a black cab I could never have afforded. She told people she was pregnant when they stopped and talked to her. But she was pregnant constantly for a year with no sign of a baby or a bump.

I would probably have intervened and asked him what he thought gave him the right to say that. But TBH I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd been able to give me a very good reason why he was angry. Unfortunately there are unscrupulous people who will exploit the naivety of others to make money.

It's far better to give to a homeless shelter than it is to give cash.

[Aermingers]

Incidentally in the 'naice' middle class area of London I grew up in I knew several girls in private six forms with wealthy parents who would make themselves look scruffy and go and sit by a cashpoint in the West End if they wanted something that their parents wouldn't stretch their allowances to like Glastonbury tickets or hair extension.

[sadwidow28]

AgentProvocateur I don't want the homeless to cause any element of fear to other members of our society, particularly the younger ones. SOME of them can be a bit 'in your face'.

My Dog and I work with the local homeless societies. We do move them on to a more suitable place whilst we try to find beds. But there are never enough beds so we supply duvets, coats, jumpers, hats and spare bin bags.

I make 3 litres of homemade soup and 2 loaves of sandwiches every cold night. (And that includes COLD SPRING AND AUTUMN NIGHTS)

We are due out at 10pm tonight as we have had 2 days of rain here. The soup smells luvverly! I could eat it myself

[hollyisalovelyname]

I have seen 'beggars' being dropped off a minibus in the morning to take up their positions.
What an awful life.
There, but for ' the fickle finger of fate' or 'grace of God', go I.
I prefer to give to a homeless charity than to people on the street.

[NinkyNonkers]

You're great Sad

[AgentProvocateur]

Sadwidow, fair dos You're right. I was prickly because I was volunteering at a soup kitchen last night, and therefore so many poor souls who are no danger to anyone except themselves. But I accept some can be. I wonder if you're near me (Glasgow). We've had rain of biblical proportions recently. Good luck on the streets tonight. You're doing a grand job. I volunteer once every couple of months or so. You put me to shame doing that every cold night.

[AgentProvocateur]

There were, not therefore.

[sadwidow28]

AgentProvocateur, those who attend the main soup kitchen tend to be long-term homeless and know the system. The Homeless charities have 'walkers' who check that they are sleeping safely each night.

The dog and I do a soup run for the 'new ones' (around the town centre and the walls in a Roman Town in the NW). I have to walk the dog for at least 4 miles a day anyway, so we just make our last night walk more productive.

Others do the railway stations, subways and canals - too scary for me to do on my own.

Well done for your kindness and help with the homeless.

[Aermingers]

holly, the ones who are dropped off by minibuses are often people who are being exploited by organised gangs and the money they raise goes to 'Mr Big's' while they live in terrible conditions. Often they're not here legally and so they are too frightened to approach the police or other agencies for help. Another reason why it's better to give to homeless charities.

If I know a homeless person, and I know for certain they are genuinely homeless I will give them money regardless of whether they spend it on drugs or booze. If I was in such a horrible situation I'd want something which took the edge off it too. There is a woman in my town who I know is homeless but she won't go to shelters because she has dogs and because of her mental health issues.

But I won't give anything unless I am absolutely certain of the background. To my mind the fake beggars are stealing from the real ones and from homeless charities so I am very, very careful not to be duped.

[onedogatoddlerandababy]

Peppermint my feelings exactly, I feel really about people moralising about the homeless spending money on drink/drugs.

Anything that gets you through the threats/aggression/driving rain/freezing temperatures.
And being treated as scum by those lucky enough not to find themselves in that situation

[littlejohnnydory]

Well, you sound just lovely and brimming with compassion, Improbable.

OP, YANBU. The man was a dick of the worst kind.

[Aermingers]

Was he being a dick though? I was homeless in my youth, although the invisible homeless in hostels and B&Bs. I find it really frustrating when professional beggars divert money that could better be spent on genuine cases. It's theft from the most needy if you look at it that way.

I've lost count of the times I've known of a beggar who all the locals knew was a professional but they still found idiots to target. Potentially this man knew something the OP didn't. But she didn't challenge him so she doesn't know.

[TedAndLola]

Aermingers, are you saying this man wasn't actually homeless? How on earth can you say he wasn't a "genuine" case?

OP, I would have also wanted to intervene but I don't think I would have, for fear of violence. It would make me feel ashamed but I also think it's the sensible thing to do.