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AIBU?

To ask you to help me work out why this grates?

66 replies

DrSeuss · 23/05/2015 17:43

MIL lives in an almost all white, all Christian area. We live in a much more diverse area with a sizeable Muslim contingent. The sight of a woman in a dupatta/ hijab/ niqab is sufficiently common for me to not really notice any more.
The last twice that she has visited, MIL has taken her to the park. Both times, she has returned full of the fact that there were Muslims there in hijab/niqab. Not in an aggressive way, more the manner of someone relating how they went to the zoo and saw some exotic creatures. Kind of, hey wow, guess what I saw! It just totally grates on me but I can't really say why. I just want to say to her, "So, you saw some local mums at the park and they belong to a different cultural group? And? You do realise that some of them may be teachers, just like a hijab wearer of my acquaintance, or doctors or nurses or anything, really, just like people from our cultural group or any group? Must you speak about them as if they are aliens?". But I don't, to keep the peace.
I just can't put my figure on why it grates. She is not being aggressively racist. I think it's the whole way it comes across, like the Queen watching local dancers somewhere in Africa and smiling graciously. I am probably being very unreasonable but I can't quite say why I dislike it.

OP posts:
winkywinkola · 23/05/2015 17:47

Well if she's not used to it then she's free to observe and pass comment.

Just like I do when I go back home and only see white faces, hardly any mix.

winkywinkola · 23/05/2015 17:48

What does she say exactly? Does she say that she can't believe they'd be teachers, accountants, lawyers etc or is that your inference?

Do you like your mil?

SwedishEdith · 23/05/2015 17:53

Is it because it's your MIL and you don't feel as free to say something back without it causing an incident?

DrSeuss · 23/05/2015 17:57

No, she doesn't explicitly say that, it's more the tone of wonderment as if she had seen a unicorn in the park! FIL is actively racist, happy to use some delightful expressions about people. I just find the whole "Guess what I saw?" thing a bit much.

OP posts:
AuntyMag10 · 23/05/2015 17:59

Well if she lives in an area where this isn't something she would come across then it explains her behaviour.

Chillyegg · 23/05/2015 18:00

Is it because the fact she comments may seem feel like she sees muslims who where the hijab/naiqab as the "exotic other". Highlighting there difference because of religion and perhaps ethnicity? Part of my dissertation was related to this but in relation to art work and how minority women are represented.

DrSeuss · 23/05/2015 18:04

I think that's it, cChilly. They are neither exotic nor other here. They are no more remarkable than most people. I find the calling attention to the difference difficult. Why do that? They have a different faith and ethnicity but in most other ways, are just the same as anyone else.

OP posts:
SwedishEdith · 23/05/2015 18:08

Because she's slightly uncomfortable with it? It's not familiar for her so she notices the difference more and makes comments because it's on her mind?

ahbollocks · 23/05/2015 18:09

I suppose its only the same as seeing alot of goths or ladies n African traditional clothes or a load of larpers in her eyes.
She's not hurting on anyone with her remarks so yabu sorry

seaoflove · 23/05/2015 18:10

I understand.

This is the 21st century, and you'd think the sight of a brown person would no longer be remarkable, even if one comes from an overwhelmingly white area.

DrSeuss · 23/05/2015 18:11

I suppose I also suspect her of being the thin end of the wedge, FIL and his charming vocabulary being the thick end.

OP posts:
Chillyegg · 23/05/2015 18:16

Lots of people unfortunately do find some "amazement" in the head scarf. Me and my sil where one on religious occasions etc and people stare like ive left the house in crotchless pants And spike covered nipple tassels. And we live in a very multicultural area

MarianneSolong · 23/05/2015 18:17

My parents used to do it. They lived in what was a very white middle-class area in my childhood. It gradually become a bit more mixed, but the families who moved in would be a handful of Asian professionals wearing secular, Western clothes.

So when they visited me and perhaps went to the school playground or down to the High Street with me, they'd comment on what a lot of 'coloured' people there were. They were of the generation that used this as a polite term. (Their default position was I suppose that everyone was white.)

I could have coped if they had done this just once on the first visit to my house. But they did it on every single, subsequent visit.

I mostly just changed the subject.

MistressDeeCee · 23/05/2015 18:19

Well she's an older generation, maybe it is a novelty to her. UK has changed a lot over the years, and pretty quickly. There are still areas I go to and don't see any black people (Im Caribbean/Brazil heritage) and Im aware some people look. I don't care, unless its really intrusive. You can tell when people are just a bit curious. It would bother me if they over-stared or said something racist in which case, Id have something to say. But otherwise, no. Its just life, some people look at who and what looks "different" if they're not causing harm I wouldn't worry. & the elders often don't think exactly as we do. Why would they...?

I don't exactly think YABU tho, as I see where you're coming from. But I don't think she IBU either...unless she makes scornful and/or derogatory remarks or implies racism in some way. Unless the fact of merely mentioning is taken as racism...we all have different "triggers", I suppose

Sazzle41 · 23/05/2015 18:19

I think its grating because if she comes from a very white area and commented once on the fact that your area is more diverse the first time she ventured out then thats fair enough. To harp on it, after every future trip or visit, is I think showing undertones of slight racism. But then i dont know her tone when she mentions it or her usual demeanour towards other cultures.

I would be yes its more diverse than where you live , then after that frankly if there were future and ongoing comments I would wonder about their attitude to race, but I would have nothing more to say on it, wouldnt entertain harping on about it and would change subject.

TalkinPeace · 23/05/2015 18:25

TBH I dislike seeing people with covered faces : be it full face crash helmets, balaclavas or any form of scarf.

Open face headscarves can look so much better than bad hairstyles
they are fine.

and the face covering cuts across all races because its a sexist religious issue not a racial one.

bellathebluebell · 23/05/2015 18:28

In all fairness to her this country has changed a lot over the last 50 years. I'm sure she would be most upset if she realised you perceived her as being rude. Why don't you cut her some slack?

Dr0pThePirate · 23/05/2015 18:32

Maybe it's because on a level she's trying to tell you how odd this is to her. She's not angry or racist but she finds it, well, odd and different and while you know she's hammering on this point you just don't know where to go with it?

Different scenario but I live in Wales, neither I are DP are from here. We can't go one visit from DP's family without mentioning that they're not in England anymore when they're here. Yup, it's definitely Wales, yes they speak Welsh sometimes, no they're nice, yes DS will learn some Welsh at school, yes he know's some of the nursery rhymes already. Yes, we live in Wales.

They're not rude about the place but they don't like that it's different and something they know nothing about but for some reason it helps to mention it all the time. For what it's worth I think it is because of an underlying prejudice that they won't talk freely about and so it comes out in some strange, semi-coherent bewilderment at the fact. Maybe this is what your MIL is doing too?

MarianneSolong · 23/05/2015 18:35

I think the question is exactly how much slack to cut?

With my elderly father-in-law I used to get annoyed when he kept asking my daughter, 'Are there many children in your class called Mohammed?'

Yes, there have been changes in the UK. But these changes have been quite well documented. The older generation watches TV, reads newspapers. Even if they live in areas that aren't very diverse they may travel about a little bit. So it's odd that in their heads, they are still living in a timewarp.

MarianneSolong · 23/05/2015 18:36

Oh, and the Welsh analogy is rather a good one, I think. (I'm half-Welsh, so notice when English people do this in Wales.)

SaucyJack · 23/05/2015 18:45

Hmm.

I think you're being a bit defensive tbh. The way Muslims dress is different to white British norms, and if you're not used to it then one probably would look twice.

Doesn't mean that she has a problem with Muslims tho. Being different doesn't make someone a better or worse person. It's just..... different.

dixiechick1975 · 23/05/2015 18:46

Would it help to put names to people. Oh was A there she's got twins dd's age etc. Maybe in a few weeks it will feel less odd to her and she'll get chatting. I used to live in an area with a large Muslim and Eastern European population, my mum didn't. my mum used to take dd to the park and come back chatting about who she had met. I think with small children it breaks the ice - how old is she, does she go to x school etc.

BestZebbie · 23/05/2015 18:48

Is she mentioning it in the same sort of way someone might report seeing someone who might be off the telly when they were at the park? I ask this because I grew up in a very rural environment where there were literally three named individuals who were not white, so until I moved out and joined the real world a bit every childhood trip to London was a bit like having books and TV come to life - all these people that had been represented in my carefully diverse reading schemes etc were actually incarnate on the bus and that was exciting and interesting but kind of in the same way that going to Disneyland and meeting Snow White might be. :/

MadisonMontgomery · 23/05/2015 18:49

I've never seen someone in a full headscarf IRL - have to admit if I went somewhere & saw people in them I would try not to stare or anything but I would be curious.

MarianneSolong · 23/05/2015 18:52

I'm not sure there is a 'British norm' though. Some people wear formal business clothes. Some people wear trackie bottoms and crop tops. There's an incredible range of styles and degrees of formality. Some people are covered-up toe to ankle, whether that involves nylon tights or pin-striped trousers. Others expose quite a lot of flesh.

But it seems tob e specifically religous and/or cultural dress that is a cause for comment..

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