To wish I had never bothered with a private pension?

[morage]

I have been paying into a Local Authority pension since I was 22 years of age. I have been for most of the time low paid, so my pension will not be high. I also can't draw it out until state retirement age.

At 22 I thought the pension I got would be small, but that it would top up my state pension and so make my life nicer. However, there is so much talk about abolishing the state pension. If that happens, they will still have to give some money to pensioners who have no savings, they can't let them starve.

I foresee that I will end up no better off on my small local authority pension, than I would have if I hadn't paid into it, and instead took whatever benefits are available.

[prepperpig]

Its a shame this couldn't have stayed on the original thread really morage rather than doing a TAAT, simply because it promotes more discussion and debate.

Anyway, you know my view. Its a selfish attitude to say I shouldn't save for myself because the government/taxpayer/the next generation will bail me out. Take responsibility for your own future. If everyone had your view then we would be screwed,

[morage]

I started a new thread as I didn't want to derail the other thread. This isn't a TAAT. The OP was asking a totally different question.

Most people I work with don't have a private pension. They just spent the money instead. And I am beginning to think they were right to do so.

[Vycount]

I don't know where this rule about TAAT comes from and I think it's fine to start a thread that is on a slight tangent.
I'll just say that my LA pension, although small, has been worth it. I actually accessed it early for ill health reasons. It's reassuring to have a regular amount coming in every month, in spite of the fact that it's not enough to live on without me doing a bit of work to top it up. It's hardly "gold plated".
I don't think you'll end u worse off and anyway, you committed to pay in to your pension every month when you joined local government, so what's the point in wondering "what if"?
I think that's what some people overlook in this LG pension discussion... I started paying into mine when I was 19 years old. The contributions were considered to be quite high, and none of my friends were paying into pensions at that age!

[morage]

Vycount - I have a lot of ill health and am unlikely to be able to work until retirement age. But they have tightened up on retirement on grounds of ill health. I have been told unless you are so ill it is clear you will never work again in any job even part time, you won't get retirement on grounds of ill health. It is for people with illnesses like progressive MS.

[Vycount]

That is rubbish Morage. Do you belong to a union? If not join one, and then get in touch with them after you've been a member for a month.
Without outing myself - The pension I have accessed related to a job I was no longer doing and a pension that I had stopped paying into some years ago. I needed a diagnosis. Then I was assessed on my ability to do the last job that I was doing when I was paying into that pension. The medical condition (not life-threatening) was agreed to be something that would prevent me carrying out the full-time duties of that last job, and therefore there was no argument - I was entitled to draw the pension.

[prepperpig]

All discussion about pensions, funding retirement and savings etc is good IMO, we need to think about it more. It just helps to carry on one, more in depth conversation. Discussion and debate is good!!

[morage]

Thanks, I will ask the union. I have already went part time, as I am too ill to work full time.

[Vycount]

I'll just add to that. The Disability Discrimination Act applies to you if you have a physical condition that prevents you from doing your job, and that lasts for over a year. You don't have to be registered disabled. That's something else to discuss with the union.
But if you are currently struggling to carry out the duties you need to at work, and face the possibility of having to give up that job because of a medical condition. If you have a diagnosis of that medical condition.... you should be looking into all of this seriously. Don't just walk away, as you say, you've paid into that pension for a bloody long time. It's supposed to cover situations like this.

[Vycount]

Morage, we crossed. You need a diagnosis. If you don't have it then pursue the medical profession until you get something in writing. You are working part-time because you physically couldn't do your job full-time. The DDA applies and so do the conditions of our pension scheme. You must be on the "old" scheme. That means it's the final salary pension. It also means, I think, that they can't make a part-time settlement of pension due to ill health, they would release all of it.

[prepperpig]

Woah there! the DDA (now the Equality Act 2010) applying (or not) does not necessarily affect the OP's entitlement to medical retirement. Plus the DDA/Equality Act does not necessarily apply to someone who has a physical condition that prevents them from doing their job. It is not related to a person's ability to do their job.

Sorry, but I'm an employment lawyer and that advice is completely wrong.

OP you need to take advice on your personal situation.

[morage]

I do have a diagnosis, and am currently applying for PIP. But reading the conditions now and it says:

"An active member who has qualifying service for a period of two years and whose employment is terminated by a Scheme employer on the grounds of ill-health or infirmity of mind or body before that member reaches normal pension age,"

I haven't been terminated on grounds of ill health, but I really should have been. I am off ill on average 1 week every month, and struggle when I am at work.

I know the DDA applies, but my job is flexible and I can get a taxi to meetings if i need it. There are no other adjustments that could be made.

[Vycount]

I didn't say it did affect Ops entitlement to medical retirement prepperpig. That's a separate process and she is quite likely to be eligible, sounds like it would at least be worth her finding out, and I've suggested she contact the Union.
If you'd like to give Op some advice on how the DDA might apply to her situation I'm sure she'd be grateful. The union will advise her on that as well.
I'm currently being supported by my union in taking action against my LG employer under the DDA, they've been very helpful.

[Vycount]

Op - talk to the union. It may be that your LG pension has different T's and C's to mine. But worth checking I think.

[morage]

What I copied are the terms and conditions for all LGPS. But I will check. I am really not well enough to be working, but haven't had a choice.

[prepperpig]

I agree overall with the advice you are giving the OP Vy i.e. to talk to the union but this bit is not correct. Whether someone is disabled under the Equality Act is not related to their ability to do their job.

The Disability Discrimination Act applies to you if you have a physical condition that prevents you from doing your job, and that lasts for over a year. You don't have to be registered disabled.

[prepperpig]

Oops the quote didn't appear in bold for some reason!

[prepperpig]

vy I can't advise the OP on whether her condition amounts to a disability over the internet. I would need more information on her medical condition and how it affects her ability to conduct normal day to day activities such as watching tv, making a cup of tea and getting dressed. Her job is not a "normal day to day activity".

[Vycount]

I understand prepperpig. Maybe you can clarify for Op because she seems to be in pretty dire straits here. So many people just fade out of their jobs because they physically can't do them any more when there is help available to them.
LGPS terms are normally the same, we pay into the same scheme and Op's pension is as old as mine. In my case when I first enquired HR kept quoting the T+C's of the current scheme, which didn't apply to me. Op may well be in the same position. To be fair, the old scheme is much more favourable for members than the new one.

[Vycount]

We've crossed pp. I have a case against my employer because they made no effort to accommodate my known physical condition.
Anyway, the pension doesn't cover my living costs, so I'm back to work now!

[morage]

I am really shocked at this. I went part time because I couldn't cope full time. And I have been trying to keep working knowing that I am not able to do my job properly. My manager is very hands off and doesn't supervise me, otherwise I think I would have been sacked before now.

[GooseyLoosey]

I am not sure what the ill-health conditions for the LGPS are. A quick hunt on google suggests that you may have to meet the following criteria (although this could be completely wrong):

1. Be dismissed by your employer on ill-health grounds.

1. Be "permanently incapable of discharging efficiently the duties of the employment the member was engaged in". This translates as being unable to do your own job until you would normally retire; and

1. Be currently unable to undertake "any gainful employment (i.e. paid employment for not less than 30 hours in each week for a period of not less than 12 months)". Which translates as not able to do any other 30 hour a week job at the moment.

These tests are strict as ill-health benefits are extremely costly to the scheme. If you think you might qualify you should talk to your employer now.

The state scheme is set up so that you should always be better off having a small pension of your own than relying solely on state benefits. If you look up pension credit on the Government's website, you will see that the Government will pay a small additional state pension to reflect small private pension savings.

I would also observe that state pension is not a great benefit and any final salary (or CARE) benefit you have from LGPS is likely to be better than relying on state benefits.

[prepperpig]

I have to go out to a meeting but will look back in later. I will struggle to give you any advice though OP without much more detail. These things are complex.

It's sounds however like your employer is accommodating your illness. This is regarded by the tribunals as a good thing and in general terms you will struggle to persuade them that you should have been dismissed. It's a bit like the cases where people are turned down for voluntary redundancy and they then bring a complaint because they wanted to leave and take a VR package. The tribunal's first instinct is to go so you want to be dismissed?

[GooseyLoosey]

You need to engage with your employer proactively now about what you need to continue doing your job and whether it is realistic, on health grounds, for you to continue doing it.

[morage]

My employer can't make any more adjustments. But if I would be eligible for a pension, I can speak to my manager about how I am not doing my job properly, and am not able to. I obviously can't do that until I know if I would get my pension.

It will be small as I have never been well paid, but with PIP payment, I could manage.