To ask what about the *nationalist* bit in SNP and Plaid Cymru?

[drudgetrudy]

Posting here for traffic as it could seriously influence the way I vote.
I'm attracted by the anti-austerity message in their campaigns..but..
Thinking about Plaid Cymru-are they really for everyone living in Wales? I understand the necessity of preserving the unique culture and language-but does this mean that English people living in Wales and non Welsh speaking Welsh people would be well represented by Plaid.
(I have learned Welsh but can't achieve fluency?)
In Scotland too-Is there anti-English sentiment?
Looking for opinions rather than a row. No-one seems to ask this on TV.
Should there be free movement of people within the UK?

[YaTalkinToMe]

I don't know about your first questions, however there is free movement within the UK.

[drudgetrudy]

Yes there is-I know that but some people seem to resent it and I wondered what the take of Plaid and the SNP would be?

[YaTalkinToMe]

Ah ok, well there are always knobbers in the world just looking to "other" someone else due to their own insecurities and issues.
Hopefully someone can come along who can answer your questions.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Unless you live in Scotland or Wales you can't vote for them, so it shouldn't impact your vote.

Both parties are about civic nationalism rather than "blood and soil" nationalism" is they want to create the best society possible for the people living in the country, no matter their nationality etc.Neither party thinks "their" country is somehow superior, and of course there would be free movement

I'm English living in Scotland, never seen any anti-english sentiment. There will be a few bigots as there are anywhere.

[drudgetrudy]

I live in Wales (Dwi'n fyw yn Nghymru). Well aware that no-one in England can vote for these parties!

I love the place have loads of Welsh friends but there is definitely a vibe from some people and the language is important for work opportunities.
I just wonder if Plaid really is a party for everyone.

[AgentCooper]

The N in SNP stands for national, not nationalist. That's a pretty common mistake, I see people online making it a lot. I think, tbh, as previous posters have said, we're not talking about blood and soil nationalism. If Plaid and the SNP gain more power and do a good job in their own countries, then that may put pressure on the WM govt, as people in England sense that the Tories/Labour aren't working for them.

[CycleChic]

If Plaid and the SNP gain more power and do a good job in their own countries, then that may put pressure on the WM govt, as people in England sense that the Tories/Labour aren't working for them. That's alreadhappened as a result of the Scottish refarendum last year.
I don't know Plaid, but the SNP are certainly for everyone living in Scotland. What does your local candidate say about the issue? or are you lucky enough to not have had a leaflet through the door

[drudgetrudy]

The issue is never mentioned. I like many of Plaid's policies but the local Plaid council is very strong about jobs only going to fluent Welsh speakers, even if there isn't direct contact with the public.

It is hard to say this in RL but some Plaid voters seem to have an intense dislike of English incomers.
I can well understand second home owners but this is about people who live and work here for long periods.

[measles64]

The Welsh speaking only jobs are Government NHS posts, the private sector does not insist upon this. Rather like the USA you could say it was protectionism. Wales for the Welsh. Much government policy has been devolved to the Welsh Assembly. So this is a strange election the MP`s standing in Wales have no power to change many things.

[ProvisionallyAnxious]

My impression having lived in Scotland and heard anecdotes about Wales is that Scottish nationalism is perhaps a bit less exclusive? For example I remember being advised not to visit a certain pub in North Wales as it was very much 'no English'! Whereas as an English person in Scotland I have never felt uncomfortable at being such. That said, I've never lived in Wales, so can't really compare, but I can't think of anything in Scotland comparable to the Welsh speakers only policy you mentioned.

I think as a PP said both the SNP and Plaid Cymru have the potential to influence Westminster and perhaps bring it more to the Left / promote anti austerity not just for Scotland and Wales but for the whole country.

[peggyundercrackers]

Living in Scotland I think there is a bit of anti-English sentiment. I think it's getting better but it's definitely there.

[Jackieharris]

The SNP isn't anti English. Nicola Sturgeon is 1/4 English I think.

There are many English party members & activists and there was a 'English people for yes' group last year.

The SNP don't want English born or English identifying people to leave Scotland. That is just nastiness from the scaremongering right wing media.

[littlejohnnydory]

Plaid Cymru could potentially be strong in coalition with the Green Party and SNP. Also, the flip side of their Nationalism is that they could truly represent the ibterests of Welsh constituencies - things like school and nursery funding and NHS resource allocation where Welsh counties often get a rough deal.

I don't think that voting Plaid would change much in the more Welsh areas in Wales, in terms of requirements to speak Welsh for employment etc, would have more impact in the South imo.

[littlejohnnydory]

The current Plaid Cymru leader is a Welsh learner!

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

My husband is standing for Plaid. He's English My impression of Plaid is that they're more interested in getting a fair deal for Wales, and people in Wales. Obviously preserving the Welsh language is important as well, as it should be, but they're not fanatical about it.

[measles64]

Education and the NHS are devolved to the Welsh Assembly so if we get a rough deal it is because of decisions made in Cardiff, not Westminster.

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

Education and the NHS are devolved to the Welsh Assembly so if we get a rough deal it is because of decisions made in Cardiff, not Westminster.

(Jesus' Plaid candidate husband here) Only to an extent... obviously the Welsh Government is responsible for how the money is spent, but Westminster decides how much money there is in the first place. Hence why Plaid is fighting for parity with Scotland, which would mean an extra £1.2bn a year for the Welsh Government's block grant.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Isn't the increased grant to Scotland in part due to the oil?

You should go for parity with NI - they get even more

[eatyourveg]

If the council was run by a a party other than plaid, wouldn't they still prefer a fluent welsh speaker because iirc everything has to be published in both english and welsh.

I'm in England but have family who are strong plaid supporters. I get the impression that plaid are fighting for the deprived areas in English speaking regions just as much as the welsh areas.

SNP imo is massively more anti english than plaid.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

IMO SNP isn't at all anti-english? (I am English). They are anti-Westminster.

[OneNight]

To Jesus' Plaid candidate husband. Does that mean that Plaid are having to consider redistributive policies in a way that the Scottish Government don't currently have to?

[JesusInTheCabbageVan]

Husband again: Plaid are in favour of wealth redistribution (we're a socialist party). As much a matter of principle as anything, rather than being specifically to do with the amount of money received from Westminster.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Our Plaid candidate is English :o

So I reckon they're alright with the immigrants.

Their leader is not a Welsh speaker.

I love their green policies, I love their anti-austerity, left wing policies. There's not a lot I don't love about them.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

I should read more carefully, Jesus, I might be voting for your dh