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AIBU?

AIBU to maintain CM payments?

28 replies

ToastMama · 28/04/2015 13:55

I'll try to be brief!

Ex has asked (very nicely) if he might be able to reduce CM payments on the basis that he's struggling financially (due to getting married this summer and large debts). I'm now re-married, with a new baby and a big-ish house.... so in his eyes, I don't need the money like I used to. His request is on the basis that it no longer seems fair that he should have to contribute as much as he does, when it's clear that we don't need it.

Back story - I loved him very much, but he simply wasn't ready for family life. He treated me rather badly (including some DV), all quite publicly, and I ended up walking away with our 2yr old. I'm proud of myself for handling the split with dignity and treating him kindly. He works in a "fun" industry where drug use is common, and he'd spiralled into a pretty bad state to escape from family life/responsibilities - but I did try to help, and always made contact with our DS easy and stress free.

Our DS is now 6, and I'm remarried to a wonderful man who adores his SS and treats him as his own. The ex is getting married this summer to a lovely woman who also adores DS. The four of us are all friendly and DS has never experienced any negativity regarding visits etc.

I want to accommodate his request out of kindness and to keep things friendly, but we're not THAT well off. My DH puts a big chunk of his salary into the mortgage, and our utilities are high. We don't drive a fancy car, and we don't go on posh holidays, but we do have a naice house that makes it look like we're doing pretty well.

He pays the amount that the CM online calculator suggests, but doesn't contribute to anything on top of that and has never taken DS on holiday etc.

Desperate not to be seen as grabby/entitled, but don't want to be taken advantage of. AIBU to maintain payments even though we don't "need" them?

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Hoppinggreen · 28/04/2015 13:58

It's not really about need in my opinion it's about him helping to financially support his child. If you don't need the money for her every day expenses put it in a bank account for her.
Him getting married is not your problem

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LineRunner · 28/04/2015 13:59

YANBU. That money is for your child, including providing a home for him. You might also want to save a bit for him for the future, e.g. for a decent laptop for secondary school, that kind of thing.

You don't always know what the future holds.

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Hoppinggreen · 28/04/2015 13:59

Sorry realised I put " her" when I meant " him" ( your child)

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2rebecca · 28/04/2015 14:01

No, YANBU. He still has a child to maintain and his payments are independent of how well off you are. If your son lived with him he'd still have to pay so he doesn't stop paying just because he lives with you. How expensive his wedding is is his choice. paying for his child should be more important than a flash wedding.

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ImNameyChangey · 28/04/2015 14:01

YANBU. Tell him no. The cheeky bastard. It's not YOUR job to pay for his wedding! Which is in effect what you would be doing.

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DoJo · 28/04/2015 14:01

It's not about whether you 'need' them - it's about your son being entitled to be supported by both his parents. If your ex is making decisions which are costing him so much that he cannot afford to do so, then that is his problem. CM should not be considered an optional expense and he should be prioritising that over a wedding that he cannot afford.

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EuphemiaCoxton · 28/04/2015 14:12

No. That money is for your son, and it isn't your son's responsibility to essentially pay for his dad's wedding.
If he can't afford his wedding he tones it down.
If you don't need all the monthly money put it into savings.
Children cost money, even when they don't live with you

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ToastMama · 28/04/2015 14:14

I do save 10% of what he contributes, and the rest gets spent on everyday life - clothing, outings, school clubs, petrol etc. He seemed convinced though that it was a moral thing, in that I shouldn't take his money if I didn't desperately need it specifically for our DS. He argued that we'd have the car, house, food in the fridge etc even if we didn't have our DS, so how much does it really cost. I'm feeling very awkward about the whole thing now.

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ReluctantCamper · 28/04/2015 14:18

Don't feel awkward. Don't stop taking CM. As someone said up thread, it's not your son's job to pay for his father's wedding.

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LineRunner · 28/04/2015 14:20

So tell him his suggestion doesn't work for you, and tell him you have no wish to discuss it further.

Cheeky sod.

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flora717 · 28/04/2015 14:30

It's NOT you taking his money. Ffs. This is his child, he is contributing (the minimum, many redponsible partners actually contribute more than that). If you are saving some (on behalf of your child), great, because he stops contributing at 18, whilst more than likely as the 'primary' you'll be supporting beyond that.
The money is based on his wages, what he can afford.

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Hissy · 28/04/2015 14:52

You have treated him kindly when he never afforded you the same courtesy.

this man abused you (and by association your DS) he will abuse new wife in time.

He is being nice to re-write history, and to make himself look good to everyone. He has shown CLEARLY that his feelings of entitlement are very much the same - and he is trying to guilt you into doing what he wants you to do, despite the fact that he is the one that is creating the pressure in his own life.

You are all friendly and your DS knows nothing about the kind of man his father is. I counsel against that continuing indefinitely. It's important for our sons to know that their fathers treated us unacceptably, to ideally deter them from emulating their abusive traits in future. Age appropriate truth. Every time.

Wagging finger away now.. :)

Your son was very little when you left though, mine was 5, so I had a different conversation with him.

You have done really well to recover and regain a proper life, and have got your DS away from an abusive male. This man doesn't deserve to be let off responsibility for his DS upkeep, the marriage is what he will have to tailor to accommodate his other commitments. Perhaps he ought to postpone the wedding..

He has debts but clearly an income that without them, if it went to CSA, he'd be ordered to pay MUCH more, right?

Just tell him that you want to keep the current arrangement, that the money is for DS upkeep (remind him that he is only contributing the bare minimum) and MOST decent dads contribute towards much more for the additional things like holiday, school uniform/trips etc.


Just as you would never think of commenting on the way he runs his home/manages his finances, you will thank him to afford you the same courtesy.

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Chunkymonkey79 · 28/04/2015 14:54

He sounds like a cheeky bastard.

I would tell him to get a grip and support the child that you BOTH created.

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motherofmonster · 28/04/2015 15:04

Nope tell him to fck off to Fcksville.

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happygirl87 · 28/04/2015 15:07

AFAIK, and I could be wrong, CM is calculated on what the NRP earns. So he has to pay his amount whether you are so rich you are swimming in money, or whether you are on the bread line. If your DH lost his job would Ex P immediately offer to pay the mortgage and fill the fridge?! Didn't think so.....

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base9 · 28/04/2015 15:24

Your ds is entitled to this money and your ex is a responsibility-dodging twat to even suggest this. I would say you are uncomfortable having these conversations and put everything through csm from now on so that it is 'fair'. He can ask THEM for a discount every time he wants to spend his son's money on something else. What do you think will happen when his wife has their first baby? Will he want to cut off his first born until he gets around to abandoning his second?

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AyeAmarok · 28/04/2015 15:30

It's not about whether you need the money. He is the child's father and he has a responsibility to financially support HIS SON.

He's right in that it is also a moral responsibility. For HIM to pay, not for you to forgo it so he can have a flash wedding.

He can't just opt out of his responsibilities just because you have it covered. You are no longer a team in that way.

He is so wrong and unreasonable it's not even funny.

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ToastMama · 28/04/2015 15:33

Hissy - either I know you (or you know the ex), or your ex is cut from the same cloth. Very good points! Thank you. Happy, I think that's right... and no, I can't see him offering to help out if our situation changed.

Base, I mentioned to him that if when they have a baby, he'll be able to reduce payments then. He was very pleased with that!

Right, off to pen a firm but fair fuck off email.

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shewept · 28/04/2015 15:48

I agree with pps. It's not about how much you have, it's about him paying towards his responsibilities.

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Nanny0gg · 28/04/2015 15:51

Base, I mentioned to him that if when they have a baby, he'll be able to reduce payments then. He was very pleased with that!

Why? He will need to budget for two!

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ToastMama · 28/04/2015 16:17

Sadly because that's what CSS suggests, Nanny. Ridiculous isn't it.

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Thecowandcat · 28/04/2015 16:21

No.

I suspect if you give in now and reduce them further he'll only ask you again, probably when he and his new wife have a child. He'll always have a good excuse.

His debts and his wedding are irrelevant. It's not a question of whether or not your son 'needs' the money. Technically speaking children don't 'need' much at all. Your son deserves the money from his father because he has become accustomed to a certain quality of life. That's why child maintenance is relative and not a fixed amount, that's why millionaire fathers will pay millions in CM and underemployed fathers will pay very little.

Tell him he either needs to speak to the CSA and get himself reassessed or he needs to find another area to cut back on. If you two were still together this is what you would have had to do as a couple. I bet you and your ex would have given up wine, treats etc if you had to for your son. Just because you are no longer together doesn't mean he can behave any differently now.

I would be polite but firm with him and say that no, your son still needs that money. Don't be drawn into trying to justify it.

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Theoretician · 28/04/2015 16:49

I wish people would stop saying the son needs the money. In this case the OP appears to be well enough off that she can afford to give the son what he needs, regardless of the level of maintenance, and probably will.

The question then is whether her standard of living, or ability to save, should take a dent, while she continues to provide for her son at the same level.

I would say no, sticking to the calculator amount is the most reasonable way forward. Once you throw that guideline out the window, then it becomes a conflict in which the nastier person wins.

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TheBoov · 28/04/2015 17:00

Sticking to the calculator is the right thing to do. He's got debts and is getting married and wants you to help him out? Bollocks. It's his son and he needs to pay his due. Sounds pretty tight to me, quite frankly.

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ToastMama · 28/04/2015 17:22

I think that's why I'm feeling conflicted, Theoretician. I know that we'd have it covered with DS should payments ever stop for whatever reason, but I feel like this is the one "formal" thing we have agreed on, and even this has been done outside the CSS by private agreement. It feels like a slippery slope.

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