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AIBU?

School using reward charts

253 replies

DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:21

I'll try and keep this short. DD is 4.5 and at a school nursery full time. She has been out of nappies for 2 years without problems.

Since February she's been wetting herself at school. Usually just a very tiny damp patch on her pants. Other times she's been completely soaked at the end of the day. It's taken a while but it seems there are 4 issues, all related to school (she had just 1 accident over the easter holidays).

Firstly she's terrified of toilet bugs. It doesn't matter how many times we tell her that washing her hands after going to the toilet kills the germs, she thinks she's going to get a bad tummy. (There was some stuff about her sucking her thumb which really upset her and I wonder whether that was used as some sort of incentive by her teacher.)

Secondly the nursery toilets are used by 30 3 and 4 year olds who have varying levels of control. By the end of the day they're in a terrible state, and DD would rather wet herself than have to use them.

Thirdly, DD thought that if she didn't drink anything, she wouldn't need to go to the toilet. Of course, that's not how it works, and her wee has been really concentrated by the end of the day and she's unable to hold it.

Finally, the structure of the afternoon means that there's no natural break for the children to go to the toilet, and the staff are very reluctant to prompt children to go. DD doesn't want to miss out so she's not going when she needs to.


Last week I spoke to her teacher and asked that she gently remind DD to drink water throughout the day and to go to the toilet. It happened for one day, DD came home dry, all was well.

Today she's come home with a reward chart - only because she was excited for us to see it. Had she not been bothered we'd be none the wiser. She gets stars for going to the toilet and at the end of the day can play with some particular toy that she loves. I'm seriously unhappy about it. I don't agree with reward charts, and am annoyed that the school have implemented one without even a mention to us. I saw her teacher this morning and she didn't say a word.

So, AIBU about this? Should I say something to the school?

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honeysucklejasmine · 20/04/2015 23:25

If it works, is it a big deal? I would have thought the majority of parents and teachers use them for various things. It wouldn't occur to me that I should be asked first.

I hope she gets to grips with it again soon!

WorraLiberty · 20/04/2015 23:27

You don't say why you don't agree with reward charts?

Regarding the dirty toilets, do you know this to be true? Have you mentioned it to the staff?

mistybluebellwoods · 20/04/2015 23:29

I think you would run the risk of being unreasonable, yes, although I absolutely agree this should have been mentioned to you, we do need to accept when children are in the care of others then they will do things we personally disagree with and outside the realms of abuse or unreasonableness - neither of which a reward chart are - they are able to do this.

I enjoy 'attachment parenting' but the clue is in the name Wink attachment parenting, not grand parenting or teaching.

UnsolvedMystery · 20/04/2015 23:29

What's wrong with reward charts?
Did you have a different suggestion for them to try?
Reward charts can be really good and reminding kids to do a particular thing, it's positive reinforcement.
I wouldn't expect the school to discuss everything with you before they try things.

DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:29

I have mentioned it and I do understand that they're not cleaners. They say it's part and parcel of having 30 3 and 4 year olds there all day.

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WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 20/04/2015 23:29

This sounds sensible and so far it's working. Why don't you agree with reward charts?

DIYandEatCake · 20/04/2015 23:31

Better get used to the 'reward' culture - seems to be everywhere in schools these days. I'm not a fan either.
But at least the rewards are for the right thing - using the toilet rather than, say, not having any accidents. I think in this case you have to let the school do their thing, and if your dd's excited about it then it might work.

DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:31
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mistybluebellwoods · 20/04/2015 23:32

'Gentle parenting' - as I said, it's parenting, which the school are not doing and nor I am sure would you expect them to.

WorraLiberty · 20/04/2015 23:32

No they're not cleaners but it's the caretakers job to keep the toilets clean.

Ask if you can see the toilets yourself at pick up time, and if they really are unusable then that needs to be sorted.

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/04/2015 23:33

I think reward charts are so ubiquitous these days that school probably didn't think that it would be an issue. Having said that, I'm not keen on reward charts either, and I would have wanted the school to ask/discuss first.

Also, for me, this isn't a behaviour issue with your DD. It's a reaction to how things are being handled at school. I'm slightly amazed that a reception class teacher isn't prepared to remind children to use the loo and to allow adequate time for this in the afternoon. Seeing as the reward chart is a fait accompli already, I would concentrate on agreeing how your DD can be supervised so that she doesn't end up in a state and wet herself. Poor thing!

WorraLiberty · 20/04/2015 23:36

Surely you don't expect them to be 'gentle parenting' 30 kids all day in different styles to suit the individual families?

Rewards are used all though infant, junior and senior schools...usually in the form of certificates/stickers and various other awards given out in assembly.

They're generally very effective.

readyforno2 · 20/04/2015 23:36

I don't believe for a second that the toilets are that bad.
I work in a preschool setting and we regularly check the toilets and handwashing area. Also, a reward chart is exactly what we would suggest in these circumstances. What is it that you have against them?

mistybluebellwoods · 20/04/2015 23:38

In fairness I think the OP just posted that link to reply to those who were curious as to why she didn't like reward charts.

However I do think if she really objects she would be within her rights to ask the school not to use it - depends on how strongly she feels :)

WorraLiberty · 20/04/2015 23:39

I'm also wondering if this 'fear of toilet bugs' might be something you could discuss with your HV?

DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:39

I have seen the toilets as DD has wet herself as I've picked her up, having tried to hold it in all afternoon. Of course I've taken her straight back inside and got her cleaned up and changed in the toilets. They're not in that awful a state, to be honest, but some children don't flush and their aim may not be that marvellous - this is a nursery class and some children aren't 4 yet.

I think being told not to suck her thumb has upset her (and I did formally complain about that) and I think they've been told about toilet germs (in the context that they can cause bad tummies) and she's either put 2 and 2 together or someone else has for her and that's worried her.

My mum was a teacher of special needs children and so has a lot of insight. Unfortunately DDs teacher, while very experienced, is very stuck in her ways and it's very hard to persuade her otherwise.

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WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 20/04/2015 23:40

Gentle parenting is not going to work on thirty 3 to 4 year olds.

I've used sticker charts for dd, they have worked well and the change in her behaviour has stuck.

I very much doubt your dd will still want a sticker for staying dry in the long term.

DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:40

Don't have a HV anymore.

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DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:41

The website happens to be called "Gentle Parenting". I'm not expecting them to parent DD. But I don't like reward charts for the reasons given in that article (am currently studying psychology).

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DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:44

From the article.

When you start to dig deeper into the psychology of rewards, such as sticker charts, you very quickly begin to realise that there is a large amount of science that refutes their use, claiming they are ineffective. Not only do these types of rewards lack in convincing evidence of efficacy, they can also cause more problematic behaviour in the future. For most parents the idea that their well meant sticker chart can create problems in the tween and even teen years is hard to swallow as it is just so alien to what society believes.

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DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:45

I'm an HR consultant. I see the impact of educating children that doing things should always lead to some sort of reward when they become adults.

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textfan · 20/04/2015 23:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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WorraLiberty · 20/04/2015 23:52

Well I'm a mother of 3 DC aged 23yrs, 16yrs and 12yrs and school rewards/certificates/merits have worked very well for them and their friends.

I'm 46yrs old and still fondly remember being given 'team points' as a reward at school, and the classes with the most went on a trip to the seaside Smile

"I see the impact of educating children that doing things should always lead to some sort of reward when they become adults."

You're greatly mistaken if you think schools operate a system that always leads to rewards, when educating children.

It's just not do-able and anyway, most senior schools drum it into pupils that their eventual exam results are the real rewards.

DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:55

We're in Wales. We were "signed off" from the HV after her second MMR (aged 3y 4m). I believe there's now a school nurse service that takes over but I have no information on what that service covers.

I've never seen any cleaners on site. Early in the school year a child missed the toilet and poo-ed on the floor. Another child then managed to stand in it and walk it through the classroom. They had to have the children outside for the rest of the day until it could be properly cleaned overnight. So I'm guessing there aren't any.

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DisappointedOne · 20/04/2015 23:58

WorraLiberty, with respect, here in the South Wales valleys the general parenting relies heavily on these sorts of bribes and threats. It's not something we've wanted - or needed - to do. Unfortunately local employers find themselves being harassed by staff who expect "prizes" for turning up on time or not phoning in sick with hangovers.

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