I don't know what to do next.

[EveDallas]

DD (9) has been having more issues with the girl ('OG') from this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a2280191-To-let-DD-leave-a-girl-out?msgid=51855249#51855249

And I'm now flummoxed as to what I can do next.

I was called in by the teacher today to be told that DD has been nasty to OG - has called her names and has then lied to the teacher about it. The teacher has seperately asked the other girls in the group (3 of them) and they have all said they have heard her do it.

DD is being punished for the name-calling and the lying

The problem is, that I may well be the 'cause' of the latest drama. After listening to DD complain about OG all week I told her yesterday to calmly say to her "I'm sorry OG, but I don't want to play with you because you keep getting me into trouble"

DD says she did this today (confirmed by the teacher) but OG went 'nuclear' (DDs words) and has told everyone that DD is constantly nasty/picking on her/being mean. It all kicked off and I was called in.

I just don't know what to do next. DD swears that the name calling was in retaliation and that OG has been a nightmare all week. There have been lots of friendship problems with OG, but I've reached the point now where I am starting to beleive that OG is 'targeting' DD to get her into trouble. I've told DD to stay away from her, and she points out that she does, but OG then purposely confronts her, asks why she won't play, and then tells the dinner lady/teacher that she is being left out.

I could do with some advice. It's escalating at a rate I really wasn't prepared for.

I shouldn't have to force DD to play with someone she doesn't like, but what do I do instead?

(I have to drive somewhere now, but will be back as soon as I can)

[EponasWildDaughter]

I had exactly the same sort of problem with DD3 in her last 2 years of primary.

In our case the other girl (M) was on/off friends with DD for a couple of years and then they had a proper big falling out. M had a habit of big 'fall out' dramas with different girls every few months, so nothing unusual there, but M made a massive thing about gathering 'her' side of all their mutual friends around her and basically caused a rift in a big group of otherwise quite pally girls. DD was upset about it, but just got on with life, no drama and everything kind of died down. DD was happy to be neither friends nor enemies with M as it was easier that way.

Then M decided she wanted to be all pally pally with DD again. DD didn't want to know. M told the class teacher and the teacher tried to make DD play with M. DD didn't want to - this happened a couple of times. Then M's mother rang the school to complain that DD was 'ignoring' M and that shouldn't be allowed! DD then got 'told off' by teacher. I marched in went to see the teacher and told her that DD had a perfect right to choose her own friends and that she was not beholden to this girl. Teacher actually agreed with me and admitted she'd not thought hard enough about this - just gone along with Ms mother. She arranged a meeting between her, me and Ms mother ... Ms mother never turned up.

OP you are doing the right thing telling your DD that she can stay away from this girl. Let her teacher know that you do not want your DD getting into trouble from dinner ladies, etc, when she exercises her perfect right to choose who to play with. Tell DD there is no need for name calling, and to just keep her distance. Keep it simple. Good luck, i know how stressful this stuff all is!

(sorry this was so long!)

[EveDallas]

Eponas, Thank you for your reply, I'm sorry your DD has been through similar.

DD crumbled last night so coming back here wasn't possible. It's so hard to see her like this. We are still stuck though, DD doesn't want to play with OG, but OG won't accept that and DD gets into trouble. I tried to speak to the teacher before about it, but it obvs didn't do any good. The problem is that if DD tries to keep away she either ends up on her own, or the other girls go with her and then they get into trouble for isolating OG. They aren't the only girls in the Class, but they are the ones that OG wants to be with. It's a no-win situation

[TwoOddSocks]

Sounds tricky! Could your DD not try to play with some completely different girls? I agree she doesn't have to be friends with OG but I don't think it's fair on OG if that means she is excluded from her entire group of friends?

[EveDallas]

Unfortunately that is how DD ended up with this set of girls - we are new to the school and DD was struggling to fit in to pre-established friendship groups in September. She is now part of a lovely group of 4/5 (one flits back and forth, but easily) and it seems OG wants to be a part of it (although she hasn't been in her previous 5 years at the school).

I have struggled with this, with OG being 'left out' but I'm starting to harden, in that OG has bought it on herself tbh. From what I understand (from other mums) this has happened a number of times.

I have spoken to the TA before (after my last thread), but not much seems to have changed. I've got DD not wanting to attend previously enjoyed after school clubs because OG will be there (and one of DDs friends has quit choir for the same reason), and now being too scared not to play with her in case she gets into trouble.

...and of course she blames me for the upset yesterday because she took my advice and it went really badly.

[TwoOddSocks]

Can your daughter not approach the teacher pre-emptively and explain the whole situation? I feel for both your daughter and OG! Not sure why OG behaves as she does but she's only little and the school should be helping her learn how to build friendships rather than simply demanding everyone plays with her.

[TeenAndTween]

When DD2 was having 'difficulty' with another child at the same age, the school instituted separate areas of the playground, with a buffer zone between them.
Then it became absolutely clear who was going over to who as someone was on the 'wrong' side.
I said to DD that if approached by the other girl she should go and stand next to the supervising adult and not engage. When you retaliate it gives the other side some truth to hang their exaggerations on.

All very hard, especially as you can never ever be 100% certain of what happens in school as you aren't there to see it.

[EponasWildDaughter]

Oh god it's just all so difficult isn't it?

The bottom line, which everyone should agree with, is that a child should not have to socialise with anyone they don't want to during their own time, any more than any adult would be expected to. This is a simple premise.

The problems arise when peer pressure kicks in, and whole swathes of kids start 'siding' with each other and one is singled out. Be it the bully or the bullied.

OP, you say ''The problem is that if DD tries to keep away she either ends up on her own, or the other girls go with her and then they get into trouble for isolating OG.''

See, in the second scenario (OG isolated) there shouldn't be 'trouble' for the other girls in this situation, from adults. The girls shouldn't be getting into trouble. Their situation should be managed. Your DD, and the other girls, are trying to cope in one of the very few ways open to them, all being trapped together in school, and ending up 'in trouble', which is wrong. Only the teachers and other staff can break this cycle. It feels like the teaching staff are being lazy.

I'd go in again, i think, and point out that your DD is being left with no options if, when she tries to distance herself from OG, she is getting 'in trouble'. I know time and resources are stretched in schools (i was a TA in primary for 8 years until recently, i've seen these 'friendship struggles' going on firsthand - it's not uncommon) but when it gets to the point that a child is as miserable as your DD sounds, then it is time that someone stepped in with something with a bit more thought than just telling these girls off. I'd push for this. Can anyone at the school spare half and hour to sit down with your DD and the OG and their friends? Not to get them to all just play together, but to help them see how to avoid all the conflict. Do they have circle time, or reading time when this could be done?

[EveDallas]

I'm definitely going in on Monday. Quite a bit more has come out this weekend (in talking to DD and a couple of her friends mums) and I am now certain that DD is being targeted by OG, and somehow we have to put a stop to it.

I've always been very lucky with DD, no real behaviour issues, friendship problems, nastiness or bossiness - in fact if anything DD has been too passive, too accommodating. I've never heard her say she hated anyone until this weekend - It's like she's snapped. I won't let her get away with being horrible, but I have to stand by her in this one.

[pilates]

EveDallas, I think you need to put something in writing to your DD's teacher. You may find the matter is dealt with more effectively.

[EveDallas]

I think that's a very good idea Pilates. I need to write it down anyway so I can get it clear in my head, maybe putting it together formally for the teacher will help (I feel a little sorry for her, she is an NQT and I think she's out of her depth).