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AIBU?

To still demand perfect table manners? (teenagers)

317 replies

ShaynePunim · 24/02/2015 13:31

Not sure who's BU - me or my kids.

They're 14 and 12. My mealtimes rules have always been:

  1. Back straight
  2. No elbows on the table.
  3. Elbows tucked in.
  4. Bring cutlery to mouth, not the other way around.
  5. No reloading of fork while still chewing previous mouthful.


There are other rules I'm sure but those are the ones I constantly have to fight about!

This is the way I have been brought up but as far as I can remember my parents never had to fight for it, by the time I was 5 or so it had been drilled into me and now it would take me an actual EFFORT to eat all slouched down with my elbows on the table etc.

So I don't understand why it's such a bloody struggle to get my kids to eat like civilised human beings!

My argument is that manners are very important and I want them, when they are adults, to be able to feel comfortable and confident in any environment, and not behave like Neanderthals.

I also find it unpleasant to have to watch them eat slouched down.

My 14 y.o. is OK...whenever I say 'sit up straight' or 'elbows in', she just does it.

My 12 y.o. argues with me over it! His arguments are: 1. we are at home so they should be allowed to relax and feel comfortable and not be harassed. 2. Manners are important but I don't realise that they (my kids) already have much better manners than most kids they know so I should give them a break. 3. He thinks I am showing poor manners by criticizing them! (But I point out I am not merely criticizing for the sake of it, I am bringing them up!).

So anyway, AIBU?

I would LIKE to give them a break (it's not bloody fun for me!), only if someone could reassure me that I have sown the seeds of good manners already and if they ever get invited to tea by the Queen they'll be just fine.

But I'm scared of letting go and failing them by not ensuring they are well brought up.
OP posts:
SistersOfPercy · 24/02/2015 13:33

YABU
Personally I'd unclench a bit. Table manners are fabulous when eating out or with company but a family meal around a table at night should be a relaxed affair where everyone enjoys their meal and the company and discusses their day not worrying about 'reloading their forks'.

Scholes34 · 24/02/2015 13:34

NU to want this behaviour at the table, but being unreasonable on yourself for having to continually nag and therefore spoiling the atmosphere at mealtime.

Rest assured, it's highly likely they don't behave like this at other people's houses and at the end of the day, that's really want you want.

EbwyIsUpTheDuff · 24/02/2015 13:35

it should be second nature by now if you've always insisted - which implies they're trying it on.

HereIAm20 · 24/02/2015 13:40

Absolutely nothing wrong with reminding them. They all forget from time to time but the reinforcement in the home does mean they know how to behave appropriately when in company too. YANBU

However if the 12 year old (boy?) is trying it on pick your battles! There will be others - it sounds like the pre-teen testerone surge and he'll be testing boundaries.

dotty2 · 24/02/2015 13:41

Do you have time and energy to chat and focus on what they are saying or are you constantly on the look out for a stray elbow or a inappropriately loaded fork? To me, table manners are much more about interaction with other people and getting the basics in place to make eating together a happy experience for all concerned. So while I try to stop DDs putting mash onto their fork with their fingers (much lower standards than you here, OP), say, I wouldn't interrupt them to tell them off if someone was in the middle of talking about something important to them.

Tizwailor · 24/02/2015 13:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Quenelle · 24/02/2015 13:42

They're quite strict rules. I think I have nice table manners but not sure I would escape criticism at your table. Especially rule 5.

DS is nearly 6yo. We aim for no farting, no talking about farting or pooing, no chewing with mouth open, sit up nicely, nobody leaves the table until all have finished. Our meals are usually relaxed and pleasant without too much hectoring.

Personally I think you can stand down a bit now. They can do it when they have to and won't be showing you up at the Palace.

LadySybilLikesSloeGin · 24/02/2015 13:44

Teenagers and rules isn't a good mix you know. I'm just happy if mine doesn't eat with his fingers and doesn't use his jumper as a napkin.

YokoUhOh · 24/02/2015 13:47

What do you insist upon in a Chinese or Japanese restaurant, OP? When I see threads about table manners, I always think about Bangladeshi families scooping up their food with bread, or Japanese families sitting around cross-legged, all enjoying their food and a natter.

What I'm trying to say is, none of your rules is particularly important, in the grander scheme of things.

SistersOfPercy · 24/02/2015 13:50

To me like I said a family meal is a social affair, like the Japanese enjoying a good natter.
I insist on table manners when out but at home as long as nobody is scooping up mash with their fingers who cares really? I'm more interested in how DH's day went or how DD's art project is going than whether anyone is sat up straight.

Merrylegs · 24/02/2015 13:51

Blimey, I obviously don't pay enough attention to my fellow diners. I can honestly say I have never noticed 5 in your list - nor 4 come to think about it.

My rules are - please wait until the dinner preparer has sat down before tucking in (unless dinner preparer says 'please start or it will get cold') and no elbows on table.

But my main rule is -don't comment on what other people are eating. By that I mean, if your sister has another helping of potatoes that is Absolutely Fine and does not mean she is a greedy pig.

Eating together should be as enjoyable and stress free as possible. Not a battleground.

Lovemycatsandkids · 24/02/2015 13:51

Too strict.

Mine are don't eat with your mouth open, don't make a mess, use cutlery and say please and thanks.

All this elbow, back straight and reloading fork stuff would piss me right off.

Sorry op with your teens on this one.

Mealtimes are relaxing family interaction and chat.

Yours sounds like hard work.

titchy · 24/02/2015 13:52

Listen to your 12 yo! Mealtimes are supposed to be about enjoying each others company, chatting about this, that and the other. Not concentrating on straight backs, elbows or forks.

Sounds quite unpleasant and Victorian to be honest.

Mouth closed when chewing. Use the right cutlery. Don't leave the table till everyone's finished. That's pretty much it in my book.

itsnotmeitsyou1 · 24/02/2015 13:52

I'm trying not to laugh, sorry OP but I have an image of you being like Hyacinth Bucket at dinner time. YABU in my opinion, however dinner time at my house growing up was not exactly prim and proper (TV dinners, and no conversation, proper chaaaavs Grin). Your son is right, as long as they eat their dinner in a calm, tidy(ish) way, what's the problem?

Charitybelle · 24/02/2015 13:56

I completely disagree yoko. We're not in Bangladesh or Japan. And if we were, op would be instilling appropriate cultural norms in her kids there. It's wrong to assume people in other countries don't have table manners just because they don't eat at a table or they eat with their hands. Every culture has its own specific rules around eating and it is sensible to ensure your kids know what these are.
Keep it up op. I cannot stand people with bad table manners, sets my teeth on edge.

VirginiaTonic · 24/02/2015 13:59

Bloody hell, no reloading of fork while chewing? Never heard that one before, I must be really badly mannered!

Hakluyt · 24/02/2015 13:59

Why can't meal times be relaxed social times but with good table manners?

ShaynePunim · 24/02/2015 14:01

Yes I realise that it's not pleasant, and that my constant nagging spoils our mealtimes, and I realise that sometimes I interrupt what they're saying in order to have a go at them for not sitting up straight etc. Not nice for them and not at all what I'm trying to achieve.

I think because I'm a single mum working full time and with not much money I always feel like I run a tight ship and I'm scared that if I let go anything even a little bit, everything will unravel and I will end up with total chaos and feral children out of control etc. I don't know how to relax and just ENJOY my time with my kids. :( I love them though!

OP posts:
YokoUhOh · 24/02/2015 14:03

I don't think other cultures have poor table manners charity, just different ways of eating. The British Table Manners rule book just happens to be a spectacularly Victorian one which doesn't lend itself to relaxed mealtimes.

YokoUhOh · 24/02/2015 14:04

shayne you're doing a wonderful job, I'm sure of it. Your children sound very polite and intelligent. I'm sure they won't kick off if you relax the table rules :)

PurpleSwift · 24/02/2015 14:08

I agree with your 12 year old....

Rules in restaurants, fine. But at home?

DrElizabethPlimpton · 24/02/2015 14:08

Shayne, you have answered your own question.

Believe me, things won't unravel if you relax. Things will probably flow more smoothly if you relax and enjoy your meals. I do understand your fear, I've been a single mum too, but do enjoy your time with your DC's, it passes so quickly and then they have flown the nest. Sad

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CliveCussler · 24/02/2015 14:14

This sums up my approach to table manners. I've been been considering getting this for our kitchen wall.

Dh has a fixation about knife and fork in the correct hands and it can really spoil a meal when he starts.

To still demand perfect table manners? (teenagers)
Hakluyt · 24/02/2015 14:20

Why on earth would you have rules in restaurants but not at home?

googoodolly · 24/02/2015 14:27

In the nicest possible way, you need to chill.

Stick to the basics - say please and thank you, no elbows on tables and no talking with your mouth full. The rest of it really isn't that important and I have no say no.5 is borderline daft. I think at home, with close family, it really isn't important to sit up straight with your elbows tucked in all the time.

Out and about, sure, but I agree with your DS that you should be able to relax a bit more at home.

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