to wonder what English MNers think of the Scottish referendum?

(290 Posts)
OTheHugeManatee Wed 03-Sep-14 15:35:41

I'm English. I quite want Scotland to vote Yes. Personally I'm not sure the financial arguments stack up but I think you can argue it either way. I want a Yes vote not because I think Scotland should eff off or anything puerile like that, but because I think we're long overdue a serious constitutional shakeup in the British Isles and a Yes vote might well be the thing to trigger it.

Also I'm quietly (and, I hope non-xenophobically) quite firmly Eurosceptic. One of my main objections to rule from Brussels is the lack of democratic legitimacy: I don't feel that my vote counts for much in deciding who gets into power there. So I can sympathise with Scottish complaints that they feel the Westminster government doesn't represent their views and never really will. Given that I want freedom from Brussels so as to go back to self-determination as a democratic nation, logically I can't object to Scotland wanting the same thing.

But other English MNers seem to feel quite strongly the other way. If you're English, what's your view?

OTheHugeManatee Wed 03-Sep-14 15:36:25

Sorry, should have specified - I'm English and resident in England, so don't get any say at all in the referendum. I suppose asking this question I'm curious about the views of English MNers who don't get to vote.

ExitPursuedByAKoalaBear Wed 03-Sep-14 15:38:13

I am firmly on the fence. Part of me feels quite excited to see what the effects of a Yes vote would be, whilst another part would feel sad that union was broken.

Rivercam Wed 03-Sep-14 15:42:13

I feel sad at the thought that Scotland could be separate.

Part of me wonders why us English don't get a vote also as to whether we want to keep Scotland or not, as it affects us all. After all, we are all part of the UK/GB.

OTheHugeManatee Wed 03-Sep-14 15:43:32

Agree, Exit - I'd be sad to see the end of the union which has held together for centuries. Part of my identity is Scottish and I'd feel very strange to think of Scotland as a foreign country. But OTOH like you I find the idea of the changes it could bring quite exciting.

Hereward1332 Wed 03-Sep-14 15:44:36

I would like a No vote, as I value the concept of a United Kingdom. If I was Scots though, I would be probably vote Yes. I don't believe Mr Salmond's economic case stacks up, which I guess ought to mean that as a little Englander I would want a yes vote to give more money to the rest of the UK, but despite the media coverage, it really isn't all about money.

Callani Wed 03-Sep-14 15:46:12

I'm English, living in England and I've been quite swept up in the debate about the Scottish referendum - it's turned me into quite the idealist, which is really rather odd, and like Exit I think it could be very interesting to see what the effects of a Yes vote could be.

StevesBollockAnalogy Wed 03-Sep-14 15:47:08

I think it's because it's not in the interest for the Yes campaign to have the rest of the UK given an opinion. There is a reason they have decided to let 16 years olds vote on this extremely emotive issue, when they are not considered mature enough to decide for themselves in any other vote. But I've become very cynical about the whole thing, as far as I can see it has very little to do with what is best for Scotland and all to do with who has the most persuasive and manipulative campaign, like all politics. The actual facts are near impossible to get hold of so it can't be because of that that people are so certain either way.

OTheHugeManatee Wed 03-Sep-14 15:49:28

Exactly Hereward - I think this is the thing the No campaign just hasn't grasped. It's not all about money. It's also about democratic self-determination and national identity and a host of other stuff.

Personally I feel the same about EU membership - you can argue the economic case either way, but it's not all about money.

Muskey Wed 03-Sep-14 15:53:14

I am welsh living in England but actually think a no vote would be better for Scotland. I would be worried about the future jobs in Scotland if English companies pull out if they are not provided with incentives to stay.

SwedishEdith Wed 03-Sep-14 15:55:39

To me it feels like watching your mum and dad talk about getting divorced. There's nothing I can do about it and I feel quite powerless and, possibly, disproportionately sad. I have no idea what I would do if I were Scottish in Scotland though. I am very pro Europe (albeit with some reforms maybe) and feel very resistant to break ups of unions and so I never think that Brussels are "telling us what to do" because I think that we are Brussels, if that makes sense.

polomoomin Wed 03-Sep-14 16:11:53

They're still keeping the chuffing Queen. If they'd ditched the Royals as a part of the yes vote and Scotland voted yes I'd be moving there tbh.

Smilesandpiles Wed 03-Sep-14 16:14:25

I've gone past caring.

NeoFaust Wed 03-Sep-14 16:19:20

I'm half-welsh, quarter-scots, quarter-english, born Londoner.

So, if they vote yes they'll destroy the only nation - Britain - I can say I really belong to. It will make me incredibly sad.

HesterShaw Wed 03-Sep-14 16:23:14

I'm quite cautious in nature and am very sad about the prospect of the Union breaking up. Also I grew up in Wales, and even though I have been in England since my early 20s, the thought of being saddled with Tory governments for evermore fills me with horror. I am also very concerned about the status, for want of a better word, of Wales and Nn Ireland should Scotland leave us - Scotland has always been the second partner, and Wales and NI often overlooked, especially by the English people themselves, many of whom use Britain and England interchangeably. I'm also really pissed off that only the Scots are being given the vote when it is our Union, all of ours. It will affect us all.

Salmond also strikes me as an arrogant bully boy, eager to cherry pick the bits he wants and then fuck off. He wants the sterling but not the debt and all the oil???? Greedy bastard. If they do vote for independence, he appears to assume he will be the leader of the independent nation, when actually the raison d'etre of the SNP will be over.

Having said all that, I'm pretty sure that if I were Scottish living in Scotland, I would be voting for independence smile

ArabellaTarantella Wed 03-Sep-14 16:26:32

I've also gone past caring - but really I would wish they would vote yes and eff off to their own little world.

HesterShaw Wed 03-Sep-14 16:27:04

Sorry didn't make it clear - once/if Scotland goes, I am worried that Wales's status will diminish further. I hope that more devolution happens.

And I also think that if Scotland goes, more remote, marginalised areas of England like Cornwall and the North East should get more say over their own affairs. I feel the WG is failing everyone currently.

Ididntseeitsoitdidnthappen Wed 03-Sep-14 16:27:45

I've also gone past caring and will laugh if they vote to become independent because independence is not sustainable for them

HesterShaw Wed 03-Sep-14 16:27:47

Arabella, that was very constructive hmm

HesterShaw Wed 03-Sep-14 16:28:17

So why will you laugh? You want a country to fail?

That's nice of you.

Ididntseeitsoitdidnthappen Wed 03-Sep-14 16:29:57

Because they've made such a song and dance about it.

Bowlersarm Wed 03-Sep-14 16:30:55

I think if I were living in Scotland I would vote Yes. It's a once in a lifetime/century/long time anyway opportunity. I dont think independence would be better for Scotland though.

Being English and in the south east, it does feel like it won't affect me too much personally. My politics are slightly right of centre too, and as I'll be (probably) voting conservative I think they'll be more likely to get back in without Scottish voters.

I feel sad about it though; it does feel like a divorce, and I hate thinking they want to get away from us!

ginnybag Wed 03-Sep-14 16:32:16

My Dad is Scottish, born on Skye, but now lives in England and has his whole adult life. He isn't getting a vote.

He will, potentially, have a nationality crisis, with a Yes, though. He isn't English, doesn't look it, sound it or identify with it, but he might have to say that he is, legally, or face possible massive upheaval. There's been no clear information about the long-term implications for people like him.

Commonwealth citizens living in Scotland can vote. All British citizens living in Scotland can vote.

Scottish-born citizens living elsewhere, can't. And yet, when they come to assign passports in ten years time.... it won't be on country of residence but on country of birth.

For that alone, I want it to be a no. It's a huge part of his identity (and mine) but we have no say. I don't object to the referendum, but I do object to how it's being held.

As for the finances - there's no way to really know what the fall-out will be unless it happens. It could be brilliant for both countries, it could be a crashing disaster.

If they vote 'Yes' though, it won't be the last. We'd be on thin grounds to not allow Wales and NI the same vote!

Ididntseeitsoitdidnthappen Wed 03-Sep-14 16:33:08

I think scots living in England have already voted by virtue of where they moved to haven't they?!

Ididntseeitsoitdidnthappen Wed 03-Sep-14 16:34:14

I also am suprised scotland are allowed a vote but we are still gripping onto NI and not giving them another vote

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