To not understand the Ashya case

(70 Posts)
Loletta Mon 01-Sep-14 21:12:03

Apologies if this has been asked before.
I just cannot see any justification for the British government seeking extradition of Ashya's parents. Have I misunderstood or they've taken their son to another European country in the hope of better medical treatment?
I mean...HOW??
Can someone please attempt to justify why these poor parents are in prison tonight rather than with their very ill son?

Bearbehind Mon 01-Sep-14 21:15:23

I don't understand it either.

I think it was a pretty low blow to release the fact they are Jehovah's Witnesses too- implying they'd taken their son out of hospital because of their religious beliefs when it seems they'd actually taken him to get better treatment.

jollygoose Mon 01-Sep-14 21:18:40

imo hampshire police have been very heavy handed and unnecessary. The child has a terminal illness as I understand and the parents are desperate to get him the best poss treatment which was not happening in the UK.
So now the poor little boy is ithout mum and dad in Spain, how on earth can that be good for him?
What a strange world we live in when child abuse in Rotheram is ignored for years and yet loving parents are threatened with extradition for seeking the best for ds who is likely to die anyway without radical treatment, total madness.

PinkAndBlueBedtimeBears Mon 01-Sep-14 21:19:00

Have we actually been given any impartial view as to what's happening? From what I've seen, which I'm not claiming is a lot, is that the hospital in short called the police and said that he had been kidnapped by his parents, find him. Manhunt starts. Parents release youtube vid explaining their point of view... The world jumps to conclusions based on two stories neither of which are anywhere near impartial?

Jellykat Mon 01-Sep-14 21:20:16

There's a thread in chat atm discussing this, with a link to a petition..

lljkk Mon 01-Sep-14 21:26:54

It's painting the NHS in a very bad light. sad

I gave up & signed the petition to drop the extradition proceedings against them. I know I'm not truly well-informed enough to know that what the Kings want is best, but I went with my gut feeling: that the parents are seeking a reasonable alternative (nearly as high odds of short-term success) for very valid reasons (much better long term health prognosis if he does survive the cancer). It may be that Ashya's cancer is unsuitable for the proton beam therapy, but if that's so, why can't the doctors convince the Kings (the Kings are obviously reasonably intelligent people).

I keep thinking of Lance Armstrong running around to different doctors, at last finding one who could treat him without destroying his lungs. He punted for the doctor who gave him that chance. Given the long term impacts of cancer treatment on small children, I can understand why the Kings want the treatment option they are seeking.

HeySoulSister Mon 01-Sep-14 21:27:03

Police don't go to these lengths without good (lawful) reason.... And they don't generally release those reasons to joe public!

In other words, we don't have all the facts

Loletta Mon 01-Sep-14 21:30:27

Can someone link to the thread in Chat please?

PersonOfInterest Mon 01-Sep-14 21:30:45

It seems like the police ^may* have been misled on this occasion soulsister.

Not that I trust the police. They haven't shown themselves in a good light lately.

Redcoats Mon 01-Sep-14 21:30:52

I think there's a lot more going on than is in the public domain. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Jellykat Mon 01-Sep-14 21:33:30
Loletta Mon 01-Sep-14 21:37:12

Ta

BonaDea Mon 01-Sep-14 21:38:24

I agree there is more to it than has been released. What I would surmise from the little we know is that there is a particular treatment kings wants to give which is against their religious beliefs and that they have taken him elsewhere to get 'better' treatment which perhaps doesn't infringe their beliefs ( but is probably not as good as the treatment offered by kings which would )

watchingthedetectives Mon 01-Sep-14 21:39:15

There is a huge back story to this that is not being released. Quite rightly the hospital will maintain patient confidentiality but this does mean they will not be able to tell their side of the story at this stage.

Presumably there was a lot of concern about whether or not he was having ongoing treatment particularly as he was only taken to hospital in Spain after the police arrived and then needed admission to a high dependency ward suggesting he was very unwell. It was also going to take some time to sell the property in Spain to raise money for treatment in the Czech Republic so doesn't sound like a well thought through plan.

lljkk Mon 01-Sep-14 21:44:40

The hospital can't say much at all without breaking confidentiality. I keep thinking that it must be a type of cancer that wasn't responsive to PBT in previous treatment.

The strict evidence-based drive of NHS may be hamstringing NHS, makes socialised medicine look very bad, esp. married up with the nanny state. There is some evidence that PBT works for some medulloblastomas, the family are willing to pay themselves. But no room in the system for them to try it? Sits very uneasy with me.

Questions nagging me: why didn't the couple fly to Spain without all their kids, do the paperwork, then fly back & then take their boy travelling asap? Long way to drive from Malaga to Czech Republic, no? If they had grabbed the boy, international hunt ensued, and then found in Czech about to undergo treatment at clinic, what would their status be then?

littledrummergirl Mon 01-Sep-14 21:47:43

My understanding(and it may not be correct) is that the parents have researched treatments, taken them to the doctors who have either ignored/refused to consider/decided to expensive or believe wont work.

The parents decided to seek treatment abroad and took their son who was allowed respite care.

The doctors told the police that he was at risk of death if his medical equipment ran out of batteries.

The police organised a warrant for arrest. Unfortunately although it has become apparent that the information was worst case scenario nobody has cancelled the warrant.

As I said, I could be wrong.

nannyafrica Mon 01-Sep-14 21:48:11

This is a facebook page set up by one of the older sons
Has lots of info on it

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1462059947403801/?fref=nf

Littleroobe Mon 01-Sep-14 21:49:36

Without having all the facts from both sides (which will probably never happen) we wont know what the reason for both sides point of view is.

However one thing we can be sure of at the moment is that there is a little boy in a strange place where he doesn't understand the language and can't speak for himself. He is with a police guard (apparently) and is unable to see his older siblings.

Both parties are saying they wanted what is best for Ashya surely this is the worst possible outcome for him?

I'm unsure where I stand in regards to if his parents were right or wrong as I simply don't have enough knowledge. However I know as a parent if my child was alone in a strange place with no on one they knew. I'd be devastated.

Rockinghorse123 Mon 01-Sep-14 21:49:46

I agree that on the face of it the NHS and police do not come out of this looking very good. I can't understand why the parents don't seem to have the right to seek and pay for alternative treatment if they're not happy with what the NHS offer.

There must be facts we don't and probably never will know. Whatever those may be I just hope the problems can be resolved quickly and effectively for that poor little boy.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 01-Sep-14 21:52:37

I don't fully understand either, but we don't have all the facts and never will. The police won't release them and the NHS cannot.

EmeraldLion Mon 01-Sep-14 21:53:31

I'm far from a conspiracy theorist but there's something about this case that really strikes me as 'not right'. I know to an extent they have to be mindful of patient confidentiality, but the news stories seem very...uninformative. They deliberately implied that the parents being Jehovah's witnesses was relevant and the pertinent parts of the video released by dad - why they actually took him - were missed out from the news bulletins at first.

It all seems like very odd and disjointed reporting of the case to me.

thereturnofshoesy Mon 01-Sep-14 21:55:33

i don't get it at all.
i think the way his parents and family are being treated is barbaric,
the parents should be with him

Karsyn Mon 01-Sep-14 22:02:04

AS SOON AS the police/doctors got info that Ashya had the feeding system he needed operating pain meds etc and was being looked after the warrant should've been revoked and they sholdve been left to carry on with their plan. if theyre that concerned about his welfare they would NOT have put him alone with NO contact with any of his family mebmers!

deakymom Mon 01-Sep-14 22:05:00

the treatment they wanted for their son is not going to be available for the little boys illness till 2015 on the NHS

it does seem like the reporting in this case screamed jehovah's witness objected to treatment and did a runner with the child as someone who has married into a family with a lot of witnesses in i can say i absolutely believed it sad

then the story changes who do you believe

JustWantToBeDorisAgain Mon 01-Sep-14 22:05:26

One of my worries is that if this case goes ahead and the parents are extradited. What happens to precedent in law and the right for parents to make decisions in the best interests if their children. I speak as a parent of a child with long term health condition. We have already had several run ins with her team, ( we wanted something (expensive) prescribed and they were reluctant. Eventually they conceded and (touch wood) she has only had 1 admission in the last 3 years. Was many times a year before this).

If we as parents loose that ability to challenge the system seek a second opinion ( overseas if we choose). I am seriously worried about the precedent of this case with the implication that if the parents and medical team do not agree, the medical team makes the final decision regardless of the possibility if getting a second opinion.

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