To think it is unfair that Scots and Welsh students don't have to pay for university education whereas English students do, even if they attend a Scots or Welsh university?

(132 Posts)
Dolcelatte Tue 26-Aug-14 18:22:26

It just doesn't seem fair at all to me. Young English students are saddled with a mountain of debt at a young age whereas, as I understand the position, the Scots and Welsh don't have to pay. No doubt some wise MNer will correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't have anything against the Scots or Welsh students or begrudge them their good fortune; they are very lucky. And I know that life isn't fair, but even so....
(this is where I would sign off with a suitable emoticon but IT skills sadly lacking by this mother of 2 DC at English universities).

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 26-Aug-14 20:01:50

wasn't it the Scottish MPs that vetoed the free English prescriptions?

HermioneWeasley Tue 26-Aug-14 20:02:28

Yes, inconsistency between uni fees and prescriptions is grossly unfair.

Looking at the GERS figures, it looks like scottish spending on education overall is lower than the UK on a % basis of spending.

FiveGoMadInDorset Tue 26-Aug-14 20:08:13

I am fairly sure but willing to be corrected that Tony Blair could only get the bill through regarding charging English students tuition fees with the help of Scottish MP's.

hackmum Tue 26-Aug-14 20:08:49

Thanks, titchy - too late for us, sadly. Unless we move to Scotland next week...

SquattingNeville Tue 26-Aug-14 20:12:07

They still come out with debt. Tuition fees paid by SAAS when I was at university (2007-2011) were £1800ish a year. I have debt of around £15000 based on four years of maintenance loans. Less debt, yes, but debt all the same.

Karsyn Tue 26-Aug-14 20:43:17

'unfair'? Technically. But life is unfair.

Anotheronebitthedust Tue 26-Aug-14 21:49:00

agree with the 'swings and roundabouts.'

Council tax, for example, is generally higher in Wales, I think because the bands were re-evaluated in 200(3?) whereas they weren't in England. This means that the properties in the highest band in some counties in South Wales (worth from 'only' £424,000) pay more each year than houseowners in Kensington (where houses can be worth millions). This could easily cancel out a few grand extra in tuition over several years.

Plus the hospital waiting lists, as mentioned above, and the comparative lack of jobs in many areas of Wales meaning many of these graduates may have to move to England at some point anyway.

I do agree it's unfair if EU students get cheaper tuition fees in Scotland though, although I'm not sure if that's the case.

But then, English (and Welsh, and Scottish) students are of course free to go to any of the European unis (many of which teach in English) and take advantage of their cheaper/non existent tuition fees too, and I think I remember reading that more and more students are doing so.

TheBogQueen Tue 26-Aug-14 21:53:07

It's up to the Scottish government how it chooses to spend money in Scotland.

If you don't like what's happening on England them vote, protest against this.

TheBogQueen Tue 26-Aug-14 21:54:42

I'm English living in Scotland. I'm glad about the tuition fees but living here I also accept lower wages and no housing boom to speak of.

I think re EU students that the rules say that you can't discriminate against students from other member states - so EU students must be charged the same fees as home students. But it doesn't legislate for discriminating within a member state. So Scotland can charge English or Welsh students, but not French.

TheBogQueen Tue 26-Aug-14 21:57:09

"While the average price of a detached house in the capital was £257,144 in January 1995, by April this year it had risen to £1,320,936 – an increase of 414 per cent."

Now that is unfair

How about that my born-in-Britain-to-British-parents son is a foreign student because we live abroad and so would pay even more (double for instance at the university nearest my family) but someone who is foreign but has lived there a short while can count as resident? He would also have to do an extra foundation year which is more than a UK resident would pay for a regular university year.

He is going to college in the US and his room and board is likely to be $15K for his first year (he has a scholarship for tuition that would otherwise be able $30K pa). The college he originally picked as his first choice would have been about $50K a year after scholarships.

elastamum Tue 26-Aug-14 22:05:46

If it makes you feel any better, if Scotland becomes independent and is allowed to join the EU, they wont be able to charge English students more than other EU member states. {smile]

Their universities will also lose a huge amount of UK research council funding though, which will decimate them. sad

Viviennemary Tue 26-Aug-14 22:11:49

Of course it is totally unacceptable when everyone is paying the same rates of income tax and NI. I'm surprised it's even allowed.

It sucks.
It's NOT 'swings and roundabouts' if you happen to be the student with a minimum of 40k debt, (DD2) or 50k plus (DD1) ... both with multiple health issues also... and paying a fucking fortune on prescription fees.

Both Welsh, but resident in England at the time of applying.. so screwed. No jobs for us back in Wales so not exactly easy to jump ship.

I am pretty sure they would find the fee to have an inital private cosultation (approx £150) in order to speed up the waiting lists, a LOT easier to bear than the 40K +++ debt they are currently incurring!!!!

So no, not swings and roundabouts.. it's unfair, unequal and I hope Wales and Scotland enjoy it while it lasts.

And yes some of us DO vote, and do protest...

TalkinPeace Tue 26-Aug-14 22:21:06

Its called kicking the can down the road.
Head in the sand
Fingers in the ears, la la la

There is no money.
He is borrowing from those very same students' future taxes to pay for their degrees, but in a hidden way

TalkinPeace Tue 26-Aug-14 22:21:59

PS an Independent Scotland will never, ever be allowed to join the EU
Spain, France and Italy will block it with all their energies

LineRunner Tue 26-Aug-14 22:27:19

I agree that today's students will not pay off their 'debt' by the time they are 50 so it's all smoke and mirrors on the deficit accounting front.

Oakmaiden Tue 26-Aug-14 22:27:51

The Welsh Government get given a budget and choose how to spend it. I personally would choose to put more money in primary and secondary education, and ask university students to pay more, but nobody asked me.

Presumably if Scotland votes yes the English students can all merrily apply at Scottish universities and claim their free place (if Scotland is allowed to remain in the EU). Bankrupt in ten minutes is my guess.

caroldecker Tue 26-Aug-14 23:57:15

They will only repay the loan if they earn a decent wage, why should thier higher wages be subsidised by lower earning non-graduates? If they don't earn a decent wage, no or little repayment - don't understand the problem?

Llareggub Wed 27-Aug-14 00:02:13

I moved back to Wales from England and this means my children are disadvantaged. Can't find the link now but welsh children do worse than heir English counterparts in secondary.

We get free entry to museums too! :-)

MrsTerryPratchett that's my understanding. I think Salmond has claimed he won't need to on some random basis - but we'll definitely be in the EU and we will have a currency union so grin

ColdCottage Wed 27-Aug-14 00:11:54

What happens if you move to Scotland just before DC starts or applies for Uni eg Edinburgh?

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