to want to know why British Jihadi fighters will have their passports revoked?

(397 Posts)
partyskirt Fri 22-Aug-14 12:53:49

Upon hearing that there are 500+ English muslims fighting in Syria and Iraq as part of the Isis army I immediately looked online for what would happen to them if they tried to return to the UK. I've listened to the news for days and read the papers, government websites etc. and it seems that they will simply be allowed back in. I find this extremely frightening. Why isn't there a clear line on what will happen to them if they try to return? Why isn't the government being clear that they will have passports cancelled and be exiled?

partyskirt Fri 22-Aug-14 12:54:26

Oooppppssss -- thread title should say whether they will have their passports revoked. I think they certainly should!!

SaucyJack Fri 22-Aug-14 12:56:46

If they are English how would it be possible or legal to not let them back in? And where would we send them to? Australia?!

Hoppinggreen Fri 22-Aug-14 12:57:56

According to sketching I was listening to on the radio they will have committed a crime and should be arrested if they come back.
Hopefully they will be killed and never come back instead

Hoppinggreen Fri 22-Aug-14 12:58:25

SOMETHING. I was listening to

lottiegarbanzo Fri 22-Aug-14 12:59:05

We're not actually 'at war' with ISIS.

it is interesting, another challenge of the change from international warfare to localised conflict and peacekeeping with dispersed, local cells and networks.

I guess they'd have to be charged with a criminal offence as civilians, since we don't operate a Guantanamo Bay equivalent.

partyskirt Fri 22-Aug-14 12:59:25

But the government /queen can revoke or block your passport at any time -- it's not a right.

expatinscotland Fri 22-Aug-14 12:59:58

I think they should be stripped of their citizenship. Actually, I think they should be allowed back in and hanged for treason, but I realise that is not going to happen.

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 22-Aug-14 13:00:04

The minute something goes wrong for them they'll also be whining for British Consular help. Frankly that should not be given under any circumstances.

LittleBearPad Fri 22-Aug-14 13:00:18

You could possibly cancel their passports so they couldn't travel but you couldn't revoke their citizenship. They are British nationals. They would probably be arrested on arrival though.

DownByTheRiverside Fri 22-Aug-14 13:00:41

Exiled to where, if they are British?

millymollymoomoo Fri 22-Aug-14 13:01:30

How do you know if someone is fighting though. It is not a criminal offence to travel to these countries (to visit relatives maybe?) and a lot of these people who have travelled to fight it is thought have actually gone to Turkey and then onto other countries. So what do we do? arrest anyone returning from Turkey, Syria, Iraq? If we take their passports, what do we do with these people? Exile them where?
I agree it IS worrying and disturbing but I don't think simply taking passports is the answer. We need intelligence agencies to be working to identify these people (with help from local communities, families, mosques) so that they can be arrested, detained and tried.

AuntieStella Fri 22-Aug-14 13:03:23

Because it is currently not legal to remove someone's nationality of doing so would mean they were stateless except in exceptionally rare circumstances.

British nationality can be stripped from dual nationals, and fighting for foreign forces is one of the grounds on which it can be done (if fighting directly against UK, then I think it can be done even if the person is left stateless). But this then all gets bogged down in legal definitions of war and fighting.

IIRC, the Government was consulting on bringing in wider powers to strip nationality (from dual nationals at least) in the context of terrorism offences, but I can't remember where that got to.

BookABooSue Fri 22-Aug-14 13:04:29

If you think about it practically then how would it work?
1) how do staff at border control know/prove they were fighting in Syria and/or Iraq?
2) where do you send them to if we're not letting them in ?
3) what becomes the threshold for losing your rights and your passport - is it only for people fighting in Syria? is it for people funding oppressive regimes? what is an aid worker nursed/cared for injured terrorists - does that count as supporting a terrorist regime?

If the government has proof of any wrongdoing, illegal or terrorist activities then we do have laws they can implement and sanctions they can introduce. Ditto if another country passes on intelligence or requests extradition.

NeoFaust Fri 22-Aug-14 13:04:34

Exiled to the beautiful society they are building.

aurthersleep Fri 22-Aug-14 13:05:29

Riverside
Why not exile them in the beloved Islamic state they are fighting for after all that is what they want

Nomama Fri 22-Aug-14 13:06:45

You cannot make someone stateless though you can remove their passports, detain them, tag them, imprison them. They couldn't be deported from here, they are ours!

Hopefully they do have dual passports and the legislation changes can be wriggled through! But I also remember something about such people revoking their dual status and retaining only British citizenship... we don't have the death penalty and our prisons are comparatively nice.

AuntieStella Fri 22-Aug-14 13:08:44

Useful article on the stripping of nationality

Even during WW2, only 4 people were stripped of citizenship. The article says that around 16 have been denaturalised under the current administration.

partyskirt Fri 22-Aug-14 13:09:47

Agree they should live in the Islamic state.

ArsenicyOldFace Fri 22-Aug-14 13:11:03

Australia, the US and Canada are revoking the passports of their citizens who are fighting for IS in Syria, Iraq etc, it is reported.

So it is apparently quite doable, when not hampered by European human rights legislation (I vaguely gather that's the issue).

ArcheryAnnie Fri 22-Aug-14 13:13:28

Agreed with those who ask where they can be exiled to? If they are British citizens, and have clearly committed crimes, then if they return to this country they should be arrested and tried.

If they are in prison, then it will be immaterial whether they have a passport or not.

AuntieStella Fri 22-Aug-14 13:13:50

It's doable here - it's being done, but only denaturalisation.

And provision for stripping still exists, but the process is very tight and was drawn up when global terrorism wasn't envisaged as a major 'treason'

Username12345 Fri 22-Aug-14 13:14:15

Agree they should live in the Islamic state.
Exiled to the beautiful society they are building.

Pretty sure you can't give your unwanted away to another country.

hmm

LittleBearPad Fri 22-Aug-14 13:14:37

Yes revoking passports is one thing but you can't revoke someone's nationality.

You also can't exile them. Where are they going to go. The Islamic State doesn't exist.

LittleBearPad Fri 22-Aug-14 13:15:55

Pretty sure you can't give your unwanted away to another country.

Well quite. Australia would be pretty miffed if we tried doing that again.

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