Is this verbal aggression?

[tisrainingagain]

Without setting the context of our relationship, I would like to ask whether I was overreacting (in my head) earlier today during a conversation with h.

We were having lunch and we were discussing some ex family friends we have who are "ex" friends after h did their extension and they subsequently all fell out . In my opinion my "ex friend's" husband was very condescending/dictatorial (towards my h), but my ex-friend herself was very demanding and can (I think) be emotionally blackmailing, a bit scary and quite hard work (the kind of person who is always talking about herself).

H was saying he did not know why I think about them still as he never does. Easy for him to say as he doesn't see them at many pick ups and drop offs which is awkward as we don't speak.

Anyway, setting aside all of this and what may be another side to the story, I was then telling h that my ex friend had done some helping at our school and my other friend (who is part of the PTA) had said that she (ex friend) had sent so many demanding emails that she (current friend) had started to wish that she (ex friend) wasn't helping as it seemed more trouble than it was worth.

At this point h made a comment along the lines of "life at amoeba level". I then said that my (current) friend was anything other than an amoeba. H then rounded on me and shouted at me twice that I am a liar (eyeballing me) and asked me if he had said that this friend was an amoeba? It's the way he did it so aggressively "You're a liar! You're a liar!". I then had to justify myself and say that I didn't like his referring to the school life as "amoeba life".

I then went inside upset.

It probably wasn't a good idea to gossip about anyone which was my mistake but it was the unexpected and aggressive way in which he rounded on me and called me a liar which really took me aback.

It is possible that I misinterpreted what he was saying but could he not have expressed himself differently?

[CoffeeTea103]

I too would have been irritated about you going on about these people when he clearly didn't seem interested.

[ODearMe]

What is 'amoeba'?!

[Nanny0gg]

Does he usually speak to you like that?

Even if you're not interested in the conversation there was no need for that reaction.

[tisrainingagain]

amoeba

He has a really angry unexpected outburst at me (of this unexpected nature) fairly regularly.

[tisrainingagain]

I have some resentment about the whole ex friend situation as he didn't listen when I told him it wasn't a good idea to work for them. The massive falling out between h and the two of them means that we have lost family friends (and that my pick ups and drop offs at school are forever awkward).

I do accept that talking about it is probably boring however.

The way h shouted at me was very hurtful and irrational however.

Guess I have answered all my own questions .

[tisrainingagain]

Too many "howevers" .

[confusedNC]

Nope I think there is cause for concern here.

I'm speaking as someone whose marriage has recently failed but have suffered emotional abuse for years without truly understanding that's what it is. Bigger than that is the realisation that my tbxh did not love me, for years possibly ever.

Obviously I'm biased by what I'm going through but be careful. Don't make excuses for him. Don't let one comment turn into daily put downs and disrespect.

I think we can all say stuff that annoys each other but I don't like the tone here. I'm also wondering if he was to blame for fall out? My ex has no friends. Always falling out and never his fault.

[tisrainingagain]

I am sure he is more to blame than he would let on / realise / admit, but on the other hand the ex friends are known for making a storm in a teacup out of every situation so I think there are different factors at play in the situation.

confused how did you realise that your h did not love you / had been emotionally abusive and how did you manage to separate (please don't feel you have to answer!). We have 3 dc which makes it very complicated.

[DoJo]

He sounds pretty...erm...intense? Or just rude and aggressive to be honest. The world is full of everyday occurrences which might not be the most fascinating things in life, but partners share them with one another because that's what being a partner is all about. Most of us have ways of indicating that we aren't necessarily fascinated with a topic which don't upset or offend our partners, or we just join in and let them get it off their chests because it makes them feel better. Talking to them like shit doesn't really feature when you love someone, no matter how boring their stories or mundane their day has been (in fact, especially when it's been really mundane as nobody else will care what your toddler finally ate for dinner after a 45 minute debate about the potential for biscuits to replace vegetables!).

In short, he sounds like an arse - is he worth it?

[tisrainingagain]

at biscuits replacing vegetables.

Yes I think he is an arse and no I don't think he is worth it but am scared of possible divorce fallout for all of us. Would rather it worked but how long am I going to think / hope that it ever will ?

Specifically with regards to him calling me a liar, was that warranted?

[AbbieHoffmansAfro]

Well, we fell out with our architects and DH used to bring it up a lot. He seemed to want to rehash it. I couldn't bear to be reminded of it. I still didn't do what your husband did though-he was seriously out of line. Just picked my moment and said tht honestly, it still hurt to talk about it and could we not keep going back to it. There is no reason your husband couldn't have done the same.

So, YABU to keep going back to a painful event he probably has no desire to think about. But he is completely U, really massively U, to speak to you in the way he did.

Time for a serious talk with him about civility and respect.

[Viviennemary]

Maybe he is still upset about the way he was treated when you all fell out and felt it wasn't sensitive of you to keep going on about this person when he had already said he didn't want to know anything about her. It is quite annoying when something has upset you but people insist on bringing it up.

[tisrainingagain]

Yes I understand (though I feel he has never acknowledged my loss of a friend) and maybe he was ham fistedly expressing his irritation, but then why accuse me of being a liar about something separate?

[confusedNC]

I went through years of confusion about his behaviour. Made myself ill with stress. Been treading on eggshells to avoid blow ups. Worrying it was my fault for not going to counselling or something.

In the end his behaviour was so hurtful and weird I had to ask him what's going on and he took a whole 5 minutes to explain our marriage was over. In the short time since then, he's said it's been over for years. It's the only thing that had finally made sense. All the nastiness and mixed messages.. He didn't love me. Shouldn't have married me. Shouldn't have had children with me. He's not sorry. Thinks it was all obvious so I shouldn't even be upset.

Don't let it creep up on you. If you're worried, make a stand and see if he cares.

[tisrainingagain]

Thanks confused. We went to counselling two years ago but he stopped coming after 5 or 6 sessions.

At the time I said I thought he didn't love me. He didn't say yes or no to this in the session but ridiculed me for having said it when at home.

In fact the counsellor did ask him how he felt about me and he answered that the dc liked me .

[tisrainingagain]

I am sorry about your situation confused. It sounds like it was really difficult. I hope you are happier now.

[DoJo]

No - I can tell you as categorically as is possible on an anonymous forum, there was absolutely no need for him to call you a liar. At worst you misinterpreted what he had said, and at best you understood exactly what he was saying and didn't like it. You are not a 'liar' for not wanting you and your friend to be talked about like that, even if it was an inference rather than something he stated outright. If he really felt that you were in the wrong, he should have been keen to explain and ensure that you didn't think that he thought so little of you.

am scared of possible divorce fallout for all of us.

Would it help to start thinking about the possible fallout and long-term damage that his behaviour will have on all of you? Do you want to see one of your children demonstrating this kind of aggression? Or dismissing you as a liar because they believe it to be a normal way to talk to you? Divorce is sometimes an incredible relief for children, and I speak as one who felt that relief.

[tisrainingagain]

Thank you dojo. Your reassurances have made me cry (in a good way!).

My dc already sometimes talk in a similar way as a direct result, I think, of sometimes hearing him speak like this .

[DoJo]

You know that you deserve better don't you? And your kids do as well. None of you should be accustomed to having someone this volatile in your family and there are plenty of people who can help, in real life and on here, whatever you decide to do about it. But you do have to do something.

What do you think he would say if you told him that you were considering leaving him over this? Would he be angry or sad? Because that might tell you whether there's anything even worth trying to salvage...

[tisrainingagain]

In the past when it has come to this and I have talked about separating he has told me to f* off then.

In general he is very affectionate with the dc. I just cannot see the wood for the trees! Should find work before I do anything else really. Don't know why I am codependent in the way that I am. Thank you for your kind words .

[DoJo]

I'm so sorry - it really sounds as though you need a new start without him dragging you down.

Being affectionate with the kids doesn't negate the negative impact of his behaviour on them - he may be a better parent than a husband, but he can do that without you being his emotional punching bag. I'm sure you will do whatever it takes to create a more stable life for your kids and you will all benefit in the long run - maybe you could use this weekend to job hunt and make a plan so that you have the positive momentum of working towards something to help you when things are tough.

[confusedNC]

It's very recent for me tis, but thank you. As stressed, upset and worried as I am, I know nothing will be as bad as waiting for it to fall apart and living with a man who treats me badly because he made the mistake of marrying me.

I'd say you're waiting to see if it gets better or you're trying to figure out if your fears are true. I didn't leave. I waited until he was treating me so badly I couldn't ignore it so had to ask him. He still didn't leave. He wanted a divorce while still living together (and me washing and cleaning and cooking etc)

I feel I've wasted my best years. I expect lots feel this way. I can't tell you that your dh is same as mine but the anger and disrespect and your confusion all strike chords.

[MrsWedgeAntilles]

This stood out It probably wasn't a good idea to gossip about anyone which was my mistake

It might not be the nicest thing to do but gossip and sharing tales with your partner is a pretty normal part of life and you shouldn't be expected to put up with this sort of aggression because of it.
Can I ask you a question - did you bring the story of someone else speaking poorly of your ex friend to him to please him and is that something you feel you have to do?

Those two element alone make me feel that this relationship isn't a good one for you.

[tisrainingagain]

Not to please him as such but to have something to talk about .

I don't think it was the gossiping per se which he reacted to (but I do think in general that gossip kind of "lowers the vibrations") but the fact that I interpreted his amoeba comment incorrectly (apparently).

I don't think this farce of a relationship is good for me either . The question is what to do about it and how. H is under a lot of pressure but it has been like this for years.

[tisrainingagain]

Not to please him as such but to have something to talk about .

I don't think it was the gossiping per se which he reacted to (but I do think in general that gossip kind of "lowers the vibrations") but the fact that I interpreted his amoeba comment incorrectly (apparently).

I don't think this farce of a relationship is good for me either . The question is what to do about it and how. H is under a lot of pressure but it has been like this for years.