To be angry there is so little response to anti semitism and the rise of extremism in Europe?

(152 Posts)
VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 13:11:57

A quick look at news sites shows an Athens holocaust memorial has been defaced, eight French synagogues attacked, shops have been burnt in a section of Paris with a large Jewish community, cars have been attacked. In Netherlands, there was an ISIS March, including chants of death to the Jews. In Germany, someone has been allegedly arrested for incitement, for yelling 'Heil Hitler'. A Dutch Jew had his house firebombed. In January, people were giving the Nazi salute en masse. A Belgian shop banned Jews from entering. French Jews are fleeing while they feel they still can. A Hungarian ambassador has publicly says Jews enslave mankind, and called them servants of Satan. Berlin has people chanting 'Jews, Jews, cowardly pigs!' and people have been heard, at pro Palestine demonstrations, chanting 'Jews to the gas chambers'.

How are people ignoring this?

WooWooOwl Thu 31-Jul-14 13:17:19

People have been ignoring it because of the same thing that has enabled them to ignore the Palestinian suffering for so long.

I don't know what that thing is though.

I'd like to point out that there was no such chanting at the London pro Palestine demonstrations. The opposit is true in fact, as the Jewish contingency was applauded for being there.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 13:20:04

No, maybe not in London- although there has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks in Britain. But it is happening. As someone raised Muslim (I'm not any more) who is Arab, and married to a secular Jew, it is horrifying me. I have felt the fear of being discriminated before- particularly when I was a kid and still a practicing Muslim, and after 9/11 I was worried despite not practicing by then.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 13:23:02

This documents the rise. I walked past a graffitied swastika today. I have been discriminated against for the colour of my skin, for my religion and for where I was born, but not on this scale. I remember my friends, who are Muslim, talking about the added security at the mosque they go to. As far as I know, churches don't need that. But synagogues and mosques now often have to- in Britain, people are feeling unsafe to worship.

Pinkrose1 Thu 31-Jul-14 13:30:06

I think it's all pretty horrendous really. Anti Semitic , anti Muslim, the whole mess in the middle east. sad

I think a lot if Jewish people outside Israel are not happy with the aggression shown by the Israeli government towards the Palestinians.

The bottom line is the bombing and murder of child civilians is overkill (literally). It's not helping Israel's wish to be accepted in the Middle East or to give Palestine (or part of it) back to the Palestinians as a self governing country.

Israel has to be prepared to give back some stolen land and treat the Palestinians with respect. Then maybe there will be some respect on both sides.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 13:45:30

I suppose. I'm against both the Israeli government and Hamas tbh. And Jews in Europe are getting the blame for it here. I don't think either of the leaders want peace...they lose power and their position and everything they've stood for if they had a peace treaty. And ordinary people on both sides are suffering as a result.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 13:55:41

Bump.

Callani Thu 31-Jul-14 14:00:25

I think it's pretty damn terrifying how quickly anti-Semitism rears its ugly head.

I think Benjamin Netanyahu is a complete megalomaniac who would rather fight than concede any ground to the Palestines, but I am fully capable of separating his actions from the many millions of Jews across Europe - why is it that so many other can't? And, for what it's worth, I think Hamas are equally repugnant and that the two sides are in a race for the bottom to see who can be as despicable as possible...

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 14:01:18

Yes. It always seems to be simmering under the surface.

OfaFrenchMind Thu 31-Jul-14 14:12:16

What I am beginning to hate is the fact that every time we speak about antisemitism in Europe, someone will try to compare it to the plight of the Palestinian. As if the suffering of the latter justified the former's.

Last thread on this subject, one of the first responses was "yes yes very bad, but let's talk about the elephant in the room". P**sed me off, as it was immediately: Jew=Israeli, therefore they did ask for it.

RandomDiva Thu 31-Jul-14 14:21:10

I don't think it is just anti-semitism which is simmering all the time. I think Europeans, including Brits and 2nd/3rd gen immigrants into Europe, are on the whole very xenophobic. Always ready to turn against pretty much any group at any time. Helped along by the press and its big wooden spoon in some cases (Roma gypsies for example, other E European groups...).

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 14:24:09

Yes, OfA - Israel is not connected to European anti semitism, aside from it being used to excuse the actions of anti Semites.

nicename Thu 31-Jul-14 14:32:02

I think Europeans, including Brits and 2nd/3rd gen immigrants into Europe, are on the whole very xenophobic. I've met immigrants with startling racist ideas/views. Racism isn't a white/european thing. Sadly its a world-wide issue.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 14:42:28

Yes, although through the use of EU powers and connections between European countries, Europe can work together more effectively than another combination of countries.

RandomDiva Thu 31-Jul-14 15:32:18

It is a worldwide issue. But was referring to Europe as that's what the thread is about.

I am wondering if xenophobia isn't something fairly innate that most people would be capable of showing under various combinations of circumstances.

badtime Thu 31-Jul-14 15:57:51

I remember my friends, who are Muslim, talking about the added security at the mosque they go to. As far as I know, churches don't need that.

It depends when and where. In one part of the UK (Northern Ireland), there have been times when certain chapels (i.e. Catholic churches) have needed security measures.

TBH, I think anti-semitism is just part of a general climate of prejudice at the moment, with anti-immigrant and anti-muslim prejudice also increasing. This often occurs in times of economic hardship, and I think we will need to see a widespread and sustained economic recovery before we see much improvement in societal tolerance.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 22:36:58

I didn't know that about NI! <clueless>

Sadly it's not even just in Europe - the far right is on the rise in Israel itself. And the French are banning a far-right Jewish organisation, think it's called the Jewish Defence League. Was in today's Times, and similar reports yesterday, I think, in the Telegraph.

Clearly anti-semitism is a. wrong in itself and b. a stupid and hateful response to any failings of the Israeli government and defence forces. But Israel's current pounding of Palestinian civilians is giving anti-semitism a boost. It's not how it should be if people were thinking straight and free from prejudice in the first place, but it is what is happening.

When Israel bombards occupied territory, targeting hospitals (plural, repeatedly), schools (plural), playgrounds and markets - even when the precise co-ordinates of schools and hospitals have been provided repeatedly to the Israeli defence force - it provokes a reaction. Despair and horror amongst those who accept Israel has a right to exist, or who are friends of Israel, and something far darker amongst those who are opposed to Israel anyway.

VampireSquid Thu 31-Jul-14 23:00:47

I believe that the anti semitism has always been there and now they have an excuse. Most reasonable people I know are horrified at what is happening in Gaza, but are not anti Semitic. I don't think it's causing an increase in the number of people who are anti semitic, but maybe they can reassure themselves they are right and they are able to speak more freely about it.

mimishimmi Fri 01-Aug-14 01:48:34

If there is rising antisemitism in western countries and Jewish people, whether they identify or not, are forced to move to Israel I think people like Netanyahu would see that as a win-win situation unfortunately. There's method (and money) behind the madness just like there was in WW2.

Pinkrose1 Fri 01-Aug-14 09:54:53

I never noticed any anti semetism before the Israeli Palestinian wars started. I don't see anything now, but there is no doubt plenty around if reporting is correct. The Middle East conflict has sparked what may have been an underlying discrimination but may have ignited something that had never been there before.

And Israel does not need to concede land to the Palestinians but to give back the West Bank and gaza.

VampireSquid Fri 01-Aug-14 10:37:24

Really? Never noticed any anti semitism? My husband was called a fucking dirty Jew when he was a kid in school. I faced Islamophobia before 9/11 when I was still practicing, so in the 80s. There have been double the number of anti Semitic attacks, but there were anti Semitic attacks before the Gaza crisis was publicised as widely. Synagogues still needed security even before the Gaza crisis. Defending innocent people doesn't make you throw nazi salutes or set homes and shops on fire?

VampireSquid Fri 01-Aug-14 10:53:13

Update on anti semitism: woman refused entry to a clothes shop for being Jewish. In Belgium, a Jewish woman was refused treatment by her doctor, ffs, and told to 'go to Gaza' (never mind she might have no relatives or little conenction to Israel, of course, apparently being Jewish automatically links you to the crisis). And Rome's Jewish quarter has been daubed with swastikas, a quick way of saying that they want every single Jew dead and support Hitler.

VampireSquid Fri 01-Aug-14 10:53:52

More than 100 anti Semitic attacks in the last month, in Britain.

Pinkrose1 Fri 01-Aug-14 11:07:09

I grew up in London with my parents, both in their 60s and honestly I and they never witnessed anything, I've asked them. Not saying it never happened but just I've never seen anything. I did drive through Manchester and wondered what all the people with head caps on were milling around for on a Saturday, when it occurred to me it was the Jewish sabbath.

Saying that I don't even know if we have a local synagogue but do have a mosque but never seen any trouble there.

Any form of hate abuse or crime is wrong. I've no doubt there is massive anti semetism still under the surface. sad

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