FFS - Anne Widdecombe. It was easier to be a Nazi or Communist in post war Britain than a Christian today(106 Posts)
Let's see. Bishops in the House of Lords. Collective worship in schools. Faith schools of your choice. Freedom of religion in a church in your village. Head of State defends your faith.
She's not talking about established traditions. She is talking the average person on the street.
Is is hard being a Christian today? Were Nazis in post war England treated better?
Oh, she's really doing herself a favour with that comparison. You should respect christians because some people respected nazis? If I were christian I'd be fuming.
also she is catholic right? So the bishops are not her reps...
but I totally agree...not seeing that christianity is under attack...except in the same way my male colleagues feel under attack when we point out the way in which everything from recruitment to promotions favours white males...yep that's right - you are losing your artificial historic position of privilege. poor poor white males / christians.
Replace it with "it's not easy being a white male anymore". I like that analogy.
Oh dear, I bet Christians all over the country are thrilled to have not-at-all-bonkers Ann standing up for them.
More or less what I would have expected of one of the most unpleasant politicians of our time.
Would this be the Anne Widdecombe who vocally supported the re-introduction of the death penalty, opposes LGBT equality, & the one whom in 1996, supported the government's shackling & handcuffing of pregnant women?
I know she's tried to re-invent herself as the friendly frumpy lady who can't dance, but I hope people see through the PR.
Anne Widdecombe the Christian? Well, actions speak louder than words.
For a start Communism and fascism have very different histories in the UK (and Communists were at least on the right side of the war!) I think being a fascist in post-war Britain would have been a lot less easy than she seems to think and certainly a lot more difficult than being a Christian is nowadays.
It also depends in which part of "post-war Britain" she means - she's dotting about all over the place! Immediately post-war? The late 50s? The 60s with world-wide tensions rising, the 80s with mini-wars all over the world? Now?
I think nowadays being an open fascist would get you a fair bit of disdain outside certain places and certain groups of mates, but being a Christian and being a communist have quite a lot in common. Most people don't know what you're on about, think you're a bit weird and finally settle for treating you as if you had an unusual hobby. It might be fairly aggravating if you're trying to sell the Morning Star or convince them of the truth of Christ, but it's hardly an ongoing campaign of persecution.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
She really makes it easy to know what to think. Just the opposite of what she does.
I love Ann dearly, she was an amazing local MP and really has helped a lot of people, me included but sometimes I really do wonder what the hell she is on.
Being a Catholic myself i can honestly say no one has ever made it hard for me to practice my faith or commented on me wearing a small crucifix, people generally only object to faith if you start preaching at them and shoving it down their throats, so saying it's harder than being a nazi or a communist is melodramatic to say the least.
This is just made up nonsense:
Christians now have quite a lot of problems, whether it's that you can't display even very discreet small symbols of your faith at work ...
As she must know perfectly well, (a) it is not a requirement of the Christian religion that people display symbols of their faith, whether at work or anywhere else, but (b) in fact, as was established in the Eweida case, Christians are perfectly free to wear things like crucifixes at work provided that it is not dangerous - e.g. it is accepted that nurses should not wear them outside their clothes.
It really bugs me when people start making up facts like this just so as to perpetuate the nonsensical notion that Christians are in some way persecuted victims. Coming from a former MP, it is particularly despicable. Goodness only knows why the Independent thinks it's appropriate to give any sort of platform to this rubbish.
I'm not in any way defending AW, but it can be difficult to be a Christian in todays world. I have found admitting to being a Christian results in a deluge of insults.I do not admit to being a Christian at work as a result (public service employee) This does not mean that agree with her but it is not necessarily easy being an open Christian.
I'm a Catholic. It's a piece of piss. No-one has ever mentioned that I wear a cross beyond 'nice cross'. Sometimes you get people trying to have a debate with you, which is fine, unless they get into the but you believe in x/y/z even when you've said you don't, because they know what you believe better than you do but that's because it's hard to debate with people with fixed ideas who don't listen rather than it's hard to be a Christian.
She converted to Catholicism over women priests in the CofE. She appears to regard my church as a refugee camp for bigoted Anglicans and now she's getting stroppy that she is still being 'persecuted'.
I do not admit to being a Christian at work as a result (public service employee) Really? Because at Social Services there were several openly Christian people who were happy, well-loved and one was and still is one of my best friends, spaghetti-monster hating atheist that I am.
Possibly the fact that he has a sense of humour, believes everyone has the right to choose their own path and only tried to convert me as a joke REALLY helped.
Sometimes you get people trying to have a debate with you, which is fine, unless they get into the but you believe in x/y/z even when you've said you don't
But Christianity has so many denominations it is extremely difficult to say much about it other than they believe in a single God and that Jesus is/was the son of God.
I'm currently marking assignments where students have to compare 2 religions and the ones who have chosen Christianity. I keep having to say, "not all Christian's believe this".
I have suggested they pick one denomination to clarify things (for the sake of passing).
I've also said if they pick Judaism to pick Orthodox or reform.
I think a lot of people think they know what Christians believe when they don't, one of the students had put that Christians celebrate Christmas but is currently refusing to put that Christians celebrate Easter because she doesn't.
Totally over the top comment on Anne Widdecome's behalf and silly, yes, but on MN there's open talk and derision about 'sky fairies' on threads in regard to Christians (not other religions, that's not socially acceptable). I do get concerned that inclusion and respect for all becomes inclusion and respect for the beliefs that fit with current social fashions: I once sat in an LA meeting where equal opportunity people savaged Daily Mail readers in a 'they ought to be locked up' kind of way and found it horrific. If it's ok to treat a group of people like that under any circumstances, then it's ok to treat ANY group like that and no different to the beliefs of the at the time well intentioned classist/racist/homophobic status holders of the past that we're horrified by these days. it's just a case of social fashions changing rather than commitment to a belief in equal respect for people.
You've got to be quite brave to admit to being a Christian in some places now, including on some boards here.
And balls of steel to admit to voting UKIP
My FIL thinks like this (although isn't crass enough to make the Nazi comparison, nice one Ann).
I adore the 'you are merely losing your artificial position of privilege' line. Will try that one next time he's ranting.
If she thinks its tough being Christian in this country, then she should try being pagan. I get the either ridicule or other religious folk trying to save my soul from hell.
What nonsense! But then, I wouldn't expect anything but nonsense from that silly woman...
sashh Catholicism has a specific problem inasmuch as people know that Papal infallibility is a thing but they don't know what it means. There is a less publicised bit a catechism that state that 'no man should be compelled to believe what he doesn't hold true' and even BenXVI, not known for his liberal stance, said you must be obedient to your conscience, even if it is in direct contradiction with church teaching. Despite all this you get told you are anti abortion (I'm not) and hate LGBT people (I am one) and think that contraception is evil (I don't).
People like to put you in boxes and sometimes it confuses them if you don't fit so instead of thinking maybe they shouldn't shove you in a box, they blame you for being the wrong shape and try and mould you by saying 'but you believe...' over and over as if saying it makes it true.
Why is saying sky fairies persecution or even rude? That is what some people believe - that God is no more than a sky fairy. so why shouldn't they say it?
I find soem Christians think others should be respectful of their beliefs, but they are not respectful of aethists beliefs.
For every person throwing out the 'sky fairy' phrase, there'll be another shouting about 'militant atheists'. I don't respect either position - I just respect the beliefs of other people and I would like them to respect mine.
AW is just another of a handful of Christians who can't handle the fact that they are no longer getting preferential treatment and being allowed to discriminate. The vast, vast majority of Christians who have never behaved like this don't have a problem with living in a more inclusive world.
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