To think - yes, universities should take state school applicants with lower grades

(438 Posts)
Lemiserableoldgimmer Sat 07-Jun-14 14:41:29

.. than applicants from private and grammar schools, on the basis that this new research suggests that as a group, state school pupils appear to be more able than private school applicants with identical A level and GCSE grades. More likely to get a good degree, less likely to drop out.

here

What do you think?

creamteas Fri 13-Jun-14 18:38:02

Aston has just said they are building a new Med School

And it looks like the students who pay full fees will be paying for scholarships for local applicants from deprived backgrounds. smile

No mention of lower entry grades, but I'm guessing that this will be part of the plan.

Takver Thu 12-Jun-14 21:15:55

I think when people suggest dropping grade requirements, they're talking 3 x A, instead of 3 x A*, or BBB instead of AAB - not massive drops that mean the universities take students with big gaps in knowledge.

Retropear Thu 12-Jun-14 17:54:23

Sorry,should be concentrating on making tea.From the research said article inferred(concluded) it was any kids from shite state schools.

Do let me know if that too is wrong and post a correction.My brain is now jelly,this is what 10 years out of education does to you.

Thanks Hak.smile

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 17:36:56

If you felt the need to apologise, best not say it in the first place, no?

TrueGent Thu 12-Jun-14 17:28:47

Imply - they implied, you inferred. Apologies blush

Retropear Thu 12-Jun-14 17:20:55

No it wasn't just private,they were talking about the best state schools too and seemed to infer they included any kids from shite state schools.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Thu 12-Jun-14 16:45:29

The problem I see with the proposal of accepting lower grades from a particular group of students is that at university you will have two types of students: those who are really struggling because they were accepted with gaps in their knowledge, those who are able to keep up because they schooling was good

Then again, the whole impetus behind this proposal is that state school candidates seem to be better at working and not dropping out etc than those with equally good grades whose schooling was 'good' (ie private).

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 15:57:18

Or something like that.

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 15:56:27

I don't think that anyone is suggesting letting people into university with Es- just Bs instead of As.

Timetoask Thu 12-Jun-14 15:30:40

I think it's a great idea to help children from less advantaged schools access university. The problem I see with the proposal of accepting lower grades from a particular group of students is that at university you will have two types of students: those who are really struggling because they were accepted with gaps in their knowledge, those who are able to keep up because they schooling was good.

Shouldn't the emphasis be on helping those children who show potential, get those top marks needed?

The end result will be graduates with a low standard of education, UK university being dumbed down, degrees being devalued.

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 15:27:30

"Why should a system be designed for the benefit of those at the bottom (of interest levels, income, intelligence, ambition - take your pick) from themselves? Why can't it be designed in the interests of those in the middle? (Because those at the top will always be okay). "

It is at the moment. I am just advocating evening things up a bit.

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 15:25:49

Is it? I thought that used to be the point of further education in particular, not tertiary education in general......

larrygrylls Thu 12-Jun-14 15:09:07

The whole point if tertiary education is that it is (was?) for those at the top. This is the top of ability, though. It does not necessarily correspond to best results to date. Of course the process does have to be transparent and fair but universities have every right to select someone they believe to have true ability in a subject over someone who has had an amazing education and has managed good grades but with little demonstration of genuine intuition or interest. How they do that is up to them. I think interviews can work well, personally.

TrueGent Thu 12-Jun-14 14:49:24

Hakluyt - I admire your honest reference to self-interest there.

What about those children whose parents don't care? What about them indeed?

Why should a system be designed for the benefit of those at the bottom (of interest levels, income, intelligence, ambition - take your pick) from themselves? Why can't it be designed in the interests of those in the middle? (Because those at the top will always be okay).

Igggi - if money follows the pupil, some will have to take pupils to remain viable. If they don't, they go to the wall and their pupils would be taken by nearby schools keen to gain the extra funding.

Igggi Thu 12-Jun-14 14:46:40

It's not about punishing you, it's about accepting that you had more help to get those grades than some other students who are also applying

Ehhn Thu 12-Jun-14 13:53:06

What about odd situations like mine? Single parent family, no help from father; neither parents went to university; grandfather on one sides coal miner and on the other a farm labourer. I got a scholarship to a private school and my mum worked her butt off to keep me there.

I had no choice in going to the school (I begged and cried not to go) but my mum insisted it would give me the best start in life. It did give me a great start, with excellent grades, but I wouldn't have chosen it for myself. Should I be punished for the determined efforts of my mother, who meant well but was poorly educated and had a horrible experience of the state system herself - and so fervently believed she was doing the right thing?

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 13:33:59

Maybe- but disproportionately among those who attract pupil premium. However hard the "I'm all right Jack" brigade would try to convince us otherwise.

Retropear Thu 12-Jun-14 13:30:24

Again across all classes including those just over pp who miss out on the benefits pp can give.

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 13:13:25

"But kids with parents that don't care are in all classes."

Absolutely. Did I say otherwise? But half my sentence was missing.

"The kids whose parents don't care, and those whose parents don't understand the system and don't know how to engage with it and the kids that nobody wants."

Retropear Thu 12-Jun-14 13:07:56

But kids with parents that don't care are in all classes.

Igggi Thu 12-Jun-14 13:05:30

If all schools set their own education criteria, wouldn't that leave about a third of the population of children wandering the streets? Who is going to choose to be the school which takes children with difficulties?

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 11:33:51

Because I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a country with an increasingly disaffected underclass. Pure unenlightened self interest should make us do everything we can to help underprivileged kids achieve.

Hakluyt Thu 12-Jun-14 11:31:54

"The answers are:

Allow all schools to set their own entrance criteria (including selection by ability if they wish);
Give all parents a 'voucher' to the value of £XXXX (whatever the average spend per pupil is) and allow them to 'top up' with their own money to buy a place;
Revert to normal distribution marking - top 10% of a cohort get an A, next 10% a B and so on.

Sit back and watch the market drive up standards."

And the kids whose parents don't care and who nobody wants? What are they, collateral damage?

AgaPanthers Thu 12-Jun-14 11:14:15

I don't know. It says here 14% of A Level students are at private school. www.independentschoolparent.com/choosing-a-school/why-choose-an-independent-school No source though.

TheWordFactory Thu 12-Jun-14 11:10:02

Aga you're right.

It's about 80% state educated post 16.

However, does that figure include all those students taking vocational courses which probably won't lead on to tertiary education?

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