to wish tax payers money was not paid to promote cows milk and dairy

(200 Posts)
brt100 Sat 07-Jun-14 10:37:40

Cards on table, I don't drink dairy as I'm health conscious, its for another animal with a very different body structure, diet and only for infants.

I get it that its delicious, well cheese is, but what I don't like is all these adverts on buses paid for partly by tax payers money to encourage people to drink milk. There are much better sources of calcium that the body can absob better so that argument is a con.

My sister gives her 7 yo a chease string every lunch time and thinks its healthy and vital.

oohdaddypig Sun 08-Jun-14 22:08:55

Cows milk is the perfect food for baby cows.

It's true that some people can tolerate it. But many cant but, like gluten, probably don't realise because the issues are subtle.

This is my hunch. I don't care if I'm mocked! My own health has improved immeasurably since chucking gluten and dairy.

I'm not waiting for the government nutritionists to tell me this. Christ, they are still banging on about low fat....

Cuddlydragon Sun 08-Jun-14 22:13:41

OP, I think you said in a previous thread that you don't yet have children? I assume that if you do you would like to breast feed them yourself? I wish you all the best with that if that is the path you choose. However, have you considered what your thought process on dairy ultimately leads to if you cannot feed your child your own milk? Formula is based on cow milk. I can only hope you post here to avoid expressing your own thoughts to your DNs mother.

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 08-Jun-14 22:15:13

This is my hunch. I don't care if I'm mocked! My own health has improved immeasurably since chucking gluten and dairy

See I have always wondered if it is the case that given milk is something we are fed on from such an early age that we are so used to the bloating or uncomfortable full ness etc that really we don't even notice it. And it only becomes clear when you stop eating it.

Oohdaddypig and giles, you are absolutely right, dairy and gluten are probably the two things people are intolerant to and many won't ever realise because they accept their symptoms as part of normal life. But there are also plenty of people who aren't intolerant to either and given the state of many people's diets in this country, dairy in particular probably is providing a major source of their nutrients, telling everyone to stop consuming it would be to their detriment, I suspect many wouldn't switch to better alternatives but worse...

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 08-Jun-14 22:41:54

That's exactly why sleepy, that I don't think we will ever know the real truth about it.

Because with so many kids on such crappy diets, milk along side the crap is better than just the crap on it's own.

I've never thought of myself as milk intolerant, or lactose intolerant , and since joining MN I'm a bit more cautious about throwing that around. But I do notice a difference. I do get bloated and uncomfortable drinking a latte for instance. And pizza, well I pay for that!

TypicaLibra Sun 08-Jun-14 22:51:32

I googled 'how many people are milk or lactose intolerant', being highly dubious about statements on this thread like:

It's true that some people can tolerate it. But many can't ....

and

Most people at some point in their lives will have a problem with milk

The NHS website gave me some idea of statistics for the UK - basically only 1 in 50 people of northern European descent have any degree of lactose intolerance, so really we're only talking about small number of people. Obviously then need to avoid dairy products, but I can't see any convincing reason why it's unhealthy for everyone else.

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 08-Jun-14 23:03:12

But I doubt those figures are accurate tbh.

Would it include babies who never had a diagnosis of anything other than colic and reflux (symptoms te very similar and I have experience of milk intolernce being dismissed as colic or silent reflux)

I assume it only includes those with an official diagnosis. How many poor eating bloated whiny toddlers are there out there who's behaviours are just thought if as normal and they grow out if it and parents none the wiser.

I've never had a diagnosis, but I remember my parents telling me that one if the formulas they tried left me with shot dripping down my leg and milk has been something I had hated literally my whole life. Is that my taste or is tht my body actively avoiding a product it knew made me feel ill? I was too young to remember really I jut remember hating milk and crying over ol people trying to get me to drink it.

I think there are such varying degrees of intolernce that for many it just goes in not ise and figures would actually be much higher

Gileswithachainsaw Sun 08-Jun-14 23:08:03

Goes unnoticed

Bunbaker Sun 08-Jun-14 23:09:41

OwlCapone you beat me to it re asking about how it is possible to feed formula fed babies without a dairy industry.

I notice that no-one has been able to answer your question.

oohdaddypig Sun 08-Jun-14 23:10:33

typical - that's just it though. I would not have described myself as lactose intolerant. For me, the casein causes allergies, sinus congestion and mucus. My ENT told me what you did - and said I should have surgery. Sod that! And I started a LOT of reading and made up my own mind. And declined the surgery.

I don't need anyone to agree with me. I'm absolutely convinced that, for me, gluten and dairy don't work. And neither does it for my kids.

FWIW - I breastfed DD2 till she was 18 months. She declined the goat based formula I offered her and is thriving on minimal dairy.

TypicaLibra Sun 08-Jun-14 23:24:30

Giles I see what you're saying and agree, but even if we quadruple those figures ... so lets say 4 in every 50 people of northern European origin being lactose intolerant, it's still a minority.

Hardly grounds for eradicating dairy cows!

It's a shame there isn't a quick POAS type test people could do though if they suspected a milk allergy or intolerance ...

TypicaLibra Sun 08-Jun-14 23:29:04

daddypig fair enough, I appreciate that some, like you, are lactose intolerant and not on the stats. Still think though that milk is very healthy (especially organic) for those who aren't intolerant to it.

oohdaddypig Mon 09-Jun-14 00:06:12

I appreciate your thoughts libra. But to clarify -lactose intolerance is really considered to be something that causes gastro type issues.

My tummy is just fine with lactose.

What I'm saying is that there are proteins in milk, such as casein, that can cause other issues to people such as allergies, sinus congestion, fatigue. You will rarely hear a conventional doctor agree with this. Which is why I only gave up dairy after doing my own research.

I have had bad hayfever my whole life. Never ever connected it to dairy.

I'm sure it's fine for lots of people. But for many it isn't, but they won't realise until perhaps they become desperate like me.

Don't get me started on gluten..... That is something none of us should eat...

Bunbaker Mon 09-Jun-14 00:13:21

"Don't get me started on gluten..... That is something none of us should eat..."

Oh really!

sugar21 Mon 09-Jun-14 00:34:14

Christ there are millions in the world who cannot get clean water let alone milk. Also millions with nothing to eat. I don't think they'd be able to read the sodding advert on the bus. What a lot of fuss

ElephantGoesToot Mon 09-Jun-14 01:00:39

I don't drink dairy as I'm health conscious, its for another animal with a very different body structure, diet and only for infants.

In your not terribly well-informed opinion.
The facts differ.

TypicaLibra Mon 09-Jun-14 06:27:06

You'd better sit down OP, you're not going to like this

Taxpayer's money (i.e EU funding) is also used to promote:

WINE wine

Sheep meet

Fresh, chilled and frozen meat products

Eggs

Honey

and there's a few other things that you might actually approve of like olive oil and fruit and vegetables!

grin grin

Waltonswatcher1 Mon 09-Jun-14 06:46:21

This is the point then isn't it?
Should any food be promoted !
And where's the evidence to say it is ...
I'd like to see the money spent on school cookery lessons and I'd like to tax heavily the producers and sellers of over processed shitty food .
Sadly lots of parents are failing to teach their children the lessons about eating for life .

Gileswithachainsaw Mon 09-Jun-14 07:21:09

I would too walton

It's the only way to real this generation of people who can't look after themselves or their family without resorting to processed crap more often than they should.

Life skills are important and a few basic dishes under their belt ol would be a good start.

TypicaLibra Mon 09-Jun-14 07:28:45

In my above post the link gives the reason for funding promotions as being to encourage a thriving farming and food sector and strong rural communities which makes good sense. Without that surely there'd be more folk moving to towns and cities which are already suffering from serious unemployment across the EU. Rural communities would stagnate and schools, shops etc would close. Thus leading to more rural public and private sector job cuts ... a vicious circle.

Benchmark Mon 09-Jun-14 08:43:35

This is interesting... Not sure how reliable the source is.

saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

brt100 Mon 09-Jun-14 09:22:16

The differenoverstated, fruit, veg, eggs and honey have some redeeming qualities. Milks are way overstated as some kind of healthy essential food.

Dairy intolrence is on a sliding scale.

The gov would bury bad news on milk in order to protect the business, so health is seen as secondary.

Agree with you on wheat, but wheat is not being promoted by tax payers money to trick people into believing its healthy and essential. Grains are also responsible for lots of poor dental health.

Most people with a ballenced diet notice so much improvement in skin, hair, bloating when giving up dairy.

Ffs just because there are bigger problems out there doesn't mean we should ignore all the smaller ones.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill Mon 09-Jun-14 10:25:08

Any proper evidence for any of this? And no, I don't mean from single issue pressure groups, but peer reviewed published studies in reputable journals.

fascicle Mon 09-Jun-14 10:34:42

TypicalLibra
The NHS website gave me some idea of statistics for the UK - basically only 1 in 50 people of northern European descent have any degree of lactose intolerance, so really we're only talking about small number of people.

That's a terribly inaccurate representation of what the NHS link actually says.

It comments on the prevalence of lactose intolerance amongst different ethnic groups. So whilst it's thought to affect approximately 1 in 50 people of northern European descent, it says that: In the UK, lactose intolerance is more common in people of Asian or African-Caribbean descent. It also says that: most people of Chinese descent have the condition.

So why, in your conflated generalisation about the UK, are you ignoring several million people who are not of northern European descent and who are far more likely to be lactose intolerant?

TypicaLibra Mon 09-Jun-14 11:11:25

Fascicle
That's why I linked to the NHS page - because clearly there was more info than my summary. I could have copied and pasted the whole thing into the post but figured that would be too long.

Anyway...
I was addressing two statements which implied that many more people than not are adversely affected by dairy products. I still hold that that's not true by any means (even taking into account people of non-northern European descent).

Also, I'm guessing that people of non-northern European descent are aware that they have a greater propensity to being dairy intolerant, so they will know that it's risky. (Please correct me anyone if I'm wrong on this - if it not well known then it obviously should be!) I don't think that's a valid reason to 'ban the use of tax payers money to promote cows milk and dairy' because taxpayers money is also used to promote a huge variety of other foodstuffs as well, the majority of which they will not be allergic or intolerant to.

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