ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
to wonder WHAT exactly it is about a breastfeeding mother that some find offensive?(335 Posts)
skipping - if you truly believe that formula milk is the same as breast milk how do you explain why formula doesn't contain antibodies? Or why it isn't constituted of fore milk and hind milk? Or why it can't change to meet the needs of the baby? Or why it needs to be heated as opposed to breast milk being naturally warm? And why is there no research to show that there are health benefits to formula just like there are with breast milk?
Formula is a perfectly acceptable form of feeding but it is not 'just the same as breast milk'.
won't confer protection from infections or SIDS. Only breastmilk will do this.
That is not true and you know it. The impact of the parent's lifestyle plays a huge role.
Odd the only SID I know in real life was bf.
A lot of these stories turn out to not be true.
Not saying this one isn't but a lot don't check out
(I assume your comment "formula milk is the same as breastmilk" was meant as a joke, as no-one could be that ignorant!
It is a good substitute, however.
Formula milk is the same as breast milk it has come on in leaps and bounds over the last few years and its packed with everything a baby needs i live seeing a breastfed baby but i think considering breast milk some magic wonder liquid for you baby is ridiculous I've seen children that are FF with tip top healthy and children that were BF with glasses and hearing aids and asthma etc which proves they are the same if your child is going to have anything wrong with them the kind of milk they drink isn't going to stop that as is in their DNA that they have those problems not their diet
"It's rather difficult to see the selection of words like "deprived" other than as a personal attack. In the context of my and my son's background "deprived" is laughably inaccurate."
Your child being carted around in a Bugaboo or wearing cashmere won't confer protection from infections or SIDS. Only breastmilk will do this.
"I looked at the reports and indeed quoted section of them which referred to the benefits not being as spectacular as you are making out."
First off - I have not used any sort of language to suggest that the benefits of breastfeeding are 'spectacular'. That is a distortion on your part in order to further your argument.
What the paragraph you read said was that "Breastfeeding may be documented as having a “small protective effect” against certain illnesses." and goes on to say that at a population level these can be very important indeed. And at an individual level the fact that some respectable studies find exclusive breastfeeding may lower the risk of SIDS by about a half, and has a significant impact on a woman's lifetime risk of developing breast cancer - well those two things alone would stop me from describing the benefits of breastfeeding as 'trivial' or 'minor'.
I understand the politically correct stance is to say 'it doesn't matter how a baby is fed', but for me - though I accept the right of any woman to do what she wants in regard to feeding her baby - in the context of an AIBU thread, that warrants challenging.
"What's the point of using loaded words like 'deprived', and giving sob story anecdotes about weeping midwives because a baby isn't being breastfed?"
I use the language which reflects the way I feel about babies not being breastfed. I understand that some women don't want to breastfeed, and some can't, and agree 100% that it is their right not to breastfeed. But that has no impact on how I feel about a baby not being breastfed. I accept it, but I still feel sad about it.
"It isn't going to change anything. I'm not going to switch my 2-month-old DD onto breastfeeding, which she can't even latch onto. All it does is create guilt and a feeling of us vs. them. You seem to have a deep-seated problem with formula feeding, lemis"
Why do you think I'm targeting you and your feeding decisions? I have no idea who you are and I have no stake in you or your baby, and you ought to ask yourself why a stranger's opinion about formula is so personally hurtful to you, given that you clearly don't feel that formula feeding is in any way problematic. Can we not agree to differ?
What's the point of using loaded words like 'deprived', and giving sob story anecdotes about weeping midwives because a baby isn't being breastfed? Give the facts, sure, but why use that kind of guilt-inducing language? It isn't going to change anything. I'm not going to switch my 2-month-old DD onto breastfeeding, which she can't even latch onto. All it does is create guilt and a feeling of us vs. them. You seem to have a deep-seated problem with formula feeding, lemis
It's rather difficult to see the selection of words like "deprived" other than as a personal attack. In the context of my and my son's background "deprived" is laughably inaccurate.
I looked at the reports and indeed quoted section of them which referred to the benefits not being as spectacular as you are making out.
I also see a Dutch report which recommend 4 - 6 months. Imagine, my failure "deprived" my son of 1 month.
A lot of people just don't know how breastfeeding works so they don't understand why you can't feed your baby 'in advance' or give them a bottle if you go out. I was the same until I breastfed myself. I don't think most of them mean to be obnoxious, it's just ignorance.
"Lesmis, there's no need to make people feel bad if they can't breastfeed."
If people want to engage in discussions and debates around the subject of baby feeding then they have to accept that others may not agree with them, and may offer information in support of their beliefs, and sometimes that information may make them feel uncomfortable. Offering information is not a personal attack. It's just not.
"I have yet to see any normalized statistics on BF vs FF"
Maybe you haven't looked properly. All decent research done into infant feeding in the past 30 years controls for a range of confounding factors. The evidence NHS recommendations on infant feeding are made on control for gestational age, parental smoking, social status, and often maternal education.
TBH - I'm surprised you could entertain the idea that the epidemiologists, doctors and midwives who sit on panels to review the evidence underpinning NHS guidance are so thick they would be happy to make recommendations about the benefits of breastfeeding on the basis of research with flaws in it so glaring that any GCSE science student would be able to identify them. Do you really think they're that dense? Ditto your feelings about the Royal College of Midwives, Royal College of Paediatrics, Royal College of Obs and Gynae, yada, yada, yada.....
I've had 2 people think it's as easy as just give them bottles during the day. One person is having a wedding and my BF DS can't come do she told me to just leave him with someone else with some bottles. The other person was my dad who wants to take me on a nice surprise day out (apparently babies can't be there) and has said just to leave him with someone who can bottle feed him.
What do they want me to do?
I'm sure the bride would love it if I had my breasts out during the ceremony and speeches as I pumped away
And I'm not sure my dad would feel comfortable with me sitting topless in the passenger seat draining my breasts of milk
Never mind the fact that I don't want DS to have bottles and even if I did, where's the guarantee that he will take one?
I am also guilty of publicly groping my breasts to work out which is the one i need to feed off next , as i cannot remember ( again due to lack of sleep )
Pahaha glad it isn't just me
I keep an elastic band on my wrist and swap it each time as a reminder... but I forget to swap it so just end up prodding them instead or trying to remember which side of the sofa I was sitting on last time.
Whoever is saying you should take formula for days out has never had to walk about with one giant boob weighing them down...
I think the offense taken is a cultural thing. "One does not do that" sort of Brit attitude.
My late sister thought I would die if I picked a smarty off the floor and ate it. It was ettiquette overdone
Lancashire I posted on that thread on student room a lot the other day... someone rn out of arguments against my points and turned it into a giant slanging match about how he was going to refuse to talk to an ignorant moron who had a baby at 19, and told me I'm am embarrassment to my DD because I'm not at a Russell Group uni. these kids may be our best and brightest, but I wish someone had interrupted their maths lessons to teach them some social skills once or twice.
the irony was, he accused me of being ignorant and uneducated, but he was insisting that every parent changes to formula at 6 months old, and she could've just made him some formula to go out and breastfed at home.
Lesmis, there's no need to make people feel bad if they can't breastfeed. Besides which, correlation is not causation, e.g. mothers who have preemie babies are likely to find it much more difficult to breastfeed, and the babies tend to be more ill...NOT because of formula, but because they are preemies. I have yet to see any normalized statistics on BF vs FF
I know breast milk is not the same as formula, I couldn't BF. I am now hiding this thread, and I will be hiding any other BF/FF that comes up in Chat/AIBU. I have BF/FF topic hidden and I know why now.
At the time I knew about the supposed 'risks' and no they weren't acceptable to me Lemis but I had no choice. 15 years on I am upset that threads like this can still make me feel crap about it.
skipping - I don't have any problems with FF babies and have worked with enough new mothers to know BF isn't for everyone and like phaedra said it can cause an horrendous state of mind for some women to the point it really isn't worth pursuing - but to say formula milk is the same as breast milk? Well that's a bit of a silly thing to say.
They are young people BogQueen Did you see the thread the other day about "twatworthy things you said or thought as a student"?
Breastmilk and formula are not the same. Ff babies are more likely to be sick, be hospitalised, need antibiotics, visit the GP. Doesn't mean you shouldn't ff - you may feel these risks are not great and are acceptable to you. Fine, that's a perfectly reasonable, socially acceptable and common POV but either way - be an adult, don't ignore the facts or deliberately characterise views you don't agree with as extreme. Nobody thinks formula is evil. Everyone knows it has a place.
Most people can breastfeed but some just can't its a fact i hate it when people act like formula milk is the devil's piss and its wrong to give your baby it when in actual fact it is the same as breastmilk its just breastmilk is convenient easy and natural plus its free. i plan on breastfeeding my PFB but if i can its no big deal and even if i can it is painful at first which is what the medics advising it do not tell you which is why most women quit it because the pain shocks them. but yh formula milk and breast milk are both fine for babies and neither should be judged in public
Lemiserableoldgimmer "deprived" is a pretty loaded word if you weren't trying to be judgemental.
I had 3 months of being more unhappy than I'd ever been in my life and getting that sort of comment from people who thought I wasn't trying hard enough.
Yep because I have quite often heard of people scarred by seeing someone breastfeed!!!!
OMG just read some of the comments on the student forum and this was one of them:-
Maybe she's not a slut ( we don't know), but breastfeeding in public is very off putting, especially to parents who don't want their kids exposed to that kind of stuff and asking questions that could effect them maybe in the future (?) I don't know personally, if Costa is breastfeeding friendly, then she has the right to do so but others I guess have the right to express their thoughts of the actions, maybe not as badly as they put it though.
Kids exposed? WTF
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.