AIBU to hate our neighbours?

[sprite25]

Long story but me, DH and 5mo DD are in a 1 bedroom flat. Above us in another flat are 2 adults, 2 kids (around 13 and 11) and their 2 dogs. When we 1st moved in landlord told us they had 1 dog who might bark when we come in until it gets used to us. Anyway ever since we moved in the noise has git worse and worse. From 5-6 in the morning til about half 10 at night there's noise. If it's not strange loud banging from them then it's barking, howling and fighting from the dogs. We've spoken twice to the neighbours about it and then complained to the landlord about it three or four times who have said they've sent letters but everytime we say something it just gets worse. DD is constantly being woken up by the noise, we know for a fact the dogs poo up there and they even let the dogs jump scratch and bark at our front door everytime they walk them. To add insult to injury the landlord has sent us a letter saying their increasing our rent yet claim the neighbours were perfect tenants until we moved in as if we're making it up. AIBU to feel pissed off or am I being a drama queen?

[Nunyabiz]

You can contest the rent increase.
Our LL asked for a rent increase recently. We said no way! We've had to put up with the neighbours digging a basement for almost a year now- good luck finding another tenant who will put up with that level of noise constantly and pay the amount we do!
As for the excessive noise, it seems you have made all necessary measures to deal with it yourself, the next step is to contact your local borough council and lodge a noise complaint (check their website for what constitutes excessive noise).

[sprite25]

Thanks for the advice nuny I didn't want to take it further if I was just being silly about it. We even had someone babysit the other week just for two hours in the evening and when we came back she was in shock at the noise and in her words 'it was like they were throwing bowling balls around and smashing up furniture'.

[sprite25]

flick we would love nothing more but just don't have the money at the moment for agents fees, a month's rent in advance and a deposit

[Nunyabiz]

It's awful being put in your position. I think YANBU based simply on the fact that these people have 2 dogs in a top floor flat! (I'm assuming? No garden?)
Never mind the kids and the fact that they have not done anything about the news. If they want to keep their dogs they should look for more suitable accommodation - otherwise your LL is very unreasonable ignoring the issue- and completely surprised by his indifference considering his property is probably getting destroyed!

[Nunyabiz]

News= noise

[ADishBestEatenCold]

I can imagine that even normal everyday noise (from a reasonable level of movement and activity) from two adults, two (almost) teenagers and two dogs might sound excessive if they are in a small flat above you. Given the very different stages their family and your family are at, the situation is likely to be even further exacerbated by very different types and levels of activity and different times the activity is likely to be at it's noisiest in each flat.

It would be very easy for me to say that possibly the last choice of property, for a couple with a baby, should be under a family with two teenagers. Needs must. Probably the first thing to do would be to have the levels of noise properly assessed, to find out if there really is an actionable problem, so perhaps the best thing to do would be to contact your local council for assistance, then take it from there.

One thing I am wondering about. You say "we know for a fact the dogs poo up there". How do you know that, sprite25?

[sprite25]

nuny they have no garden and are only taken out a couple of times a day. ad we wouldn't of taken the flat if we had known what it would be like but as I say the more we bring it up the worse it gets. We know about the poo because we've heard the daughter yell out about 'dog poo on the carpet again' it often smells of dog mess in the hallway after they have opened their front door and the lady has said to my mum before that she feels bad if the dogs have accidents but 'it happens when you have dogs I guess'.

[meringue33]

My advice is to scrimp and save and get out of there Sprite. IME bad neighbours never get better, only worse.

Do start logging all the issues though with the councils noise nuisance as backup in case you are stuck there for a while. Keep a diary and write down each noise disturbance, start and end time, volume etc.

Environmental health or animal welfare about the dogs??

[AgaPanthers]

rspca I reckon

[AgaPanthers]

rspca I reckon

[PrimalLass]

I would definitely phone environmental health about the dogs.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"agents fees, a month's rent in advance and a deposit"

Would you not get your deposit back from this place, to use as the deposit for a new place.

Also, do all agents charge the tenant a fee? I thought it was the property owner that paid the agent a letting fee. I'm quite possibly wrong, but it might be worth shopping around.

It does sound as if your flat is probably not going to be suitable, long term, even if the worst of the noise issues were addressed by the council.

[Nancy66]

RSPCA won't do anything. The dogs are being fed and taken out a couple of times a day.

[sprite25]

I have already spoken to RSPCA after they left the dogs for 7 and a half hours barking and howling (even the landlord phoned them to say come home your dogs are barking) but they just said unless there is distress to the animals or abuse they can't do anything. We did consider going with a private landlord to avoid tenants fees but still don't have a deposit and would only get our deposit back from this flat once we moved out and they inspected it for damage etc. Have been sitting here considering all sorts of things from borrowing money off family to getting a bank loan to move out, they've already woken DD up three times today which is bad enough but she's not sleeping at night cos of teething

[RedRoom]

Two dogs in a flat is pretty inconsiderate, unless they are beautifully behaved or very small.

Given that you can't afford agent's fees and the month's rent in advance, can you chat to your current agent and try to rent another property from their books, and ask them to run one tenancy onto the end of the other? You are already paying a month ahead, iyswim. You would still need a deposit, but you may be able to get them to waive the agency fees or agree to let you pay it later. Or, if they inspect property A on the day you move into property B, they could port the deposit across. No harm in asking: I've negotiated lots of things in the past when renting.

[sprite25]

We have said to the landlord we understand people can't and shouldn't have to be silent and that dogs can't be stopped from barking all the time but that we find it unacceptable at 10 at night when our baby's trying to sleep. We did ask the landlord about moving to one of their 2 bedroom houses but they said as it would be the start of a new tenancy it would have to be another deposit and month rent in advance and then we would get the flat deposit back which makes no sense but would rather go with a different landlord now anyway

[UncleT]

It's essential that you keep a full diary of all noise and antisocial behaviour. Record it if you can. Put your concerns strongly, but politely, to the landlord in writing - recorded delivery. Stress the effect on the child. Get the council noise team involved ASAP. Do not hesitate to call the Police at the merest hint of aggression or harassment.

[CumberCookie]

www.gov.uk/report-noise-pollution-to-council might be of use to you

[Pipbin]

ADish You have to put down the deposit up front and you don't get the deposit back from your old place until after you move out.
And agents charge ridiculous fees for anything they can think of.
Years ago I was moving into a new flat, I had everything I owned in a van outside, but they wouldn't let me take the keys until I had paid the £100 (and this was 15 years ago) fee for buildings insurance. I argued that it was up to the landlord to sort that but they wouldn't let me have the keys without it.

[Notcontent]

That sounds terrible and I think the only solution is for you to try to move once you have saved up some money.
I personally don't think anyone should keep a dog in flat unless it's a small dog and they are on the ground floor.

[ThornOfCamorr]

Firstly OP I really feel for you, I can't imagine how it must be dealing with the dog noise in flats. We had a problem with one barking in a house behind us, most mornings for 5 hours from 8am onwards and various other times. I ended up doing the diary thing through our local council for 4 weeks. They were brilliant, contacted me after letting me know they sent a letter and advice to the tenants regarding the barking and how to stop their dogs doing it. If the tenants didn't make a change they would pursue it further. Luckily this was all it took for the barking to stop. It had driven me mad up until that point. I know it is a long shot but sometimes this way can work. I hope you are either able to move or try the reporting method. It isn't a quick fix but can get results.

[SugarMouse1]

Report them to the RSPCA and social services.

Because their flat is most likely a shit hole and they don't sound like very responsible people.

Report them to the council for noise pollution as well.

Alternatively get revenge by playing heavy metal music loudly when you think they might be trying to sleep.

[sprite25]

The landlord told us to write it all down for a week which we did and when we gave it to them that's when the lady we spoke to said about them being perfect tenants. My DH has several recordings on his phone where we have been able to hear their noise through DDs baby monitor while she's in the bedroom and we're in the living room down the hallway but the landlord wasn't interested in it. As much as I can't stand the barking little shits I also think it's unfair and inconsiderate to the dogs to be stuck in a flat, but like I say the RSPCA said it needs to be concerns over the animals welfare or something although I have seen the young son be rough with them and DH said he saw the boy slap one of them quite hard once.

[absoluteidiot]

In a similar boat although my new and noisy neighbours are in the other side of a semi detached.

The noises we hear are basically them shrieking really vile abuse at their kids (aged only 1 and 3), their awful dog (that never, ever gets walked and we live in the country) howling, and the woman's drunken/drug fuelled weird baying sounds. We all council tenants and the council's attitude was "It's social housing: what do you expect?" They are people housed from outside our area and from week one were paying bedroom tax (they told me) so don't even need a house that size. I have 5 kids, two disabled and the last family to get a 3 bed house here also had 5 kids, 1 child disabled. So it is the first time in a decade the council have re-housed people with two tiny kids in a house this size. Bizarre, when you hear how little housing stock (and sick that Selby District Council's attitude is "It's social housing: what do you expect?")

Social services came out after my kids and I overheard the man shouting particularly awful abuse at the baby. But seem to have signed them off after a couple of months of visiting them weekly.

Council say they will loan us a device that records sounds (apparently recording on your phone is unacceptable) but our problem is, the extreme abuse/domestic violence sounds are very brief bursts and very, very unpredicatable. By the time I'd found the thing and hit 'record' it would be over. And they only give you a couple of weeks to gather proof. The bloke had the cheek to get in first, claiming we slam doors. Council pointed out to him he was living in a furniture and carpet-less house. He was clearly just making a claim to pre-empt our's as neighbours they have had in the past can't not have complained about the child abuse/domestic violence noises.

We found out they had moved out from HA or council housing previously, as the man couldn't cope with living next door to people and had a perfectly adequate detached private rental til our council, bizarrely put them to the top of the waiting list. We know these idiots are Teflon, presumably because they are on full housing benefit so they are a guaranteed income. They pay the full rent on time so are presumably dream tenants, to the landlord. They only checked one reference from their last landlord so didn't even unearth the fact they had had to move previously for antisocial behaviour.

OP I suspect your landlord is also seeing pound signs. It's all they care about. You are a new tenant who has a nuisance caused by more established tenants and we are very established tenants whose lives have been made hell by new tenants. It's not the longevity of a tenancy, I suspect - but the fact that some tenants do not have to struggle to pay rent - it's all paid for these dicks next door to me. So the council don't care how much they upset tenants who have paid them thousands of pounds over years and years. It's not the fact you're new. It's probably just the fact these idiots are good payers.

I know it's not worth ringing the RSPCA about the scraggy, neglected dog next door. If no-one gives a feck about two kids under 4 - it's even more certain no-one really gives a feck about a dog.