To want autonomy over my body.

(1000 Posts)
thebodydoestricks Wed 23-Apr-14 16:12:50

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

basgetti Wed 23-Apr-14 19:02:35

Well if they had been allowed access to safe legal abortions at least the women would likely have survived. Surely it is better to save one life than kill two, especially as the woman may have children who need her, a spouse who loves her, an otherwise fulfilling and happy life?

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 19:03:58

*SoonToBeSix why should a woman come first, why should her desire to further her career or maintain her current lifestyle be more important than a foetus's life".

Why do you pick those two examples, as if a woman should be all nurturing and above such things? This is total sexism on your part. Women are also human beings, and some of them value these things - why should they not?

In law, its not considered a life. If it were, we would have pregnant women being jailed and being sued for any actions of their own which might cause a miscarriage.

But ultimately, the reason for being pro-abortion is that without it, women are condemned to being second class citizens, prisoners of their own fertility. And I don't think that's fair for 50% of the population.

javotte Wed 23-Apr-14 19:04:20

Dawn as I have mentioned before, I am not talking about the law, I am talking about morals. Before abortion was made legal, would you not have fought for it if you believe it is right?
The baby not being able to survive outside the womb does not make it a "bunch of cells". I believe it is a person, who doesn't share its mother's DNA so cannot be considered as a part of her body like her gallstone or her appendix.

caroldecker Wed 23-Apr-14 19:06:21

In a no abortion world, many children are dragged up badly by unwilling parents to thier detriment and society's - Freakonomics argues that legal abortion in the US is responsible for reducing crime rates in the 80's and 90's as less unwanted children were born.
A life is not just being alive and abortion prevents much suffering to children - most people are nowadays encouraged to keep thier children rather than adopt.

MyrtleDove Wed 23-Apr-14 19:06:42

Javotte foetuses cannot survive independently of their mothers. They have no personhood of their own.

5madthings Wed 23-Apr-14 19:07:56

Ikea you say abortions will never be banned and abortion to term not allowed.. But actually both are already happening.look at Ireland and various states in America where women's rights and access to abortion are being whittled away. Contrast that with Canada where there are no laws regulating abortion, but the system in Canada works well. Women, despite being full of 'crazy hormones' are capable of deciding what is best for them and their body.

Women deserve the right to bodily autonomy, it really is that simple.

javotte Wed 23-Apr-14 19:08:05

Melonade once a man has had sex he cannot decide if the child will be born or not - does that make them second-class citizens prisoners of their own fertility?

Fizzybangfanny Wed 23-Apr-14 19:08:26

I hate these threads. They are so sad.

The law is behind the woman so I don't understand why they have to be bashed about so frequently.

I had a early termination when I was 18. It was absolutely the right thing to do. I could not afford nor look after a life. It was a horrid horrid situation that I made sure would never happen again.

There are many reasons why a woman is entitled to a termination. I dont think it being used as regular birth control is one of them. I know of some one that's had four. Thats sad.

I hate the extremists that say it should be banned and the extremists that say it should be legal to full term even if on a whim the mother decided ' she doesn't want it'

What these threads prove I don't know sad

SoonToBeSix Wed 23-Apr-14 19:08:56

I picked those examples as you the selfishness of abortions for those reasons are obvious. Other reasons may not seem as clear cut although I believe all abortion is wrong .
I am happy to be a " prisoner of my fertility" . If I choose to have sex I need to accept that I may have an unplanned pregnancy.

RunLikeSomeFeckersChasing Wed 23-Apr-14 19:10:38

BabyFaced - I'm from NI. Bloody love the place. But certain things about it make me ashamed to have any association with it. I believe in choice. Unadulterated choice. I believe I should be able to choose an abortion. I believe that this choice should have no limitations. Thank you for sharing your story, I hope it helps to change all our choices.

AnyaKnowIt Wed 23-Apr-14 19:11:15

Anya why should a woman come first, why should her desire to further her career or maintain her current lifestyle be more important than a fetus's life?

Because its her body she should have the choice

lovelyjubberly Wed 23-Apr-14 19:11:31

Yabu. Everyone has autonomy over their body, do you want autonomy to kill your baby until term then? Why stop having autonomy at 24 weeks?

I am against abortion, I don't go out and protest or anything like that, but I do disagree with it being available on the NHS. I'd rather funds were spent on cancer and the like. I love babies and don't want my taxes spent on ending them sad

javotte Wed 23-Apr-14 19:12:18

Fizzy laws change.
Should abortion not have been discussed in the 60s? It was illegal, so shut up? What about death penalty? It was legal, so should its opponents have kept quiet?
I think debates are healthy. If you believe that your opponents are nutters, just let them talk and discredit themselves.

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 19:13:19

YANBU

Dawndonnaagain Wed 23-Apr-14 19:13:59

The baby not being able to survive outside the womb does not make it a "bunch of cells". I believe it is a person, who doesn't share its mother's DNA so cannot be considered as a part of her body like her gallstone or her appendix.
It does share its mothers dna. Otherwise she wouldn't be its mother.

The fact is though, you believe it is a person, science dictates otherwise.
The fact is, no matter what you believe, forcing someone to give birth against their will is immoral, as I said before, you don't tell me how to dress, what perfume to wear, you, nor anyone else cannot and in my opinion should not, have the right to tell me what to do with my body. Only I have that right.
People fought very hard to get what we have.

javotte Wed 23-Apr-14 19:15:31

Science doesn't dictate what is a person and what isn't, because a person isn't a scientific concept. So you must use religion / ethics / philosophy / whatever you believe in.
And are you telling me I am my mother's clone?

SoonToBeSix Wed 23-Apr-14 19:15:40

Anya but the fetus is not part of her body , she is sustaining it yes but it is a separate entity whose life she is choosing to end.

MyrtleDove Wed 23-Apr-14 19:16:43

Fizzy why is it sad that someone you know has had four abortions? As long as they were safe and legal I see no problem. It's just a medical procedure.

Soon do you believe that aborting ectopic pregnancies (no chance of the embryo surviving and very likely that the mother will die if not removed) is wrong? What about other lifesaving abortions?

Too bloody right some abortions are selfish and they are GOOD. If I got pregnant tomorrow (highly unlikely!) I would have an abortion as soon as I found out, and would have no regrets whatsoever. My reasons for abortion would be entirely selfish. I don't give a fuck. My body, my decision.

LtEveDallas Wed 23-Apr-14 19:17:00

I'd rather funds were spent on cancer and the like. I love babies and don't want my taxes spent on ending them But that wouldn't happen. Those 'lovely' babies need to go into care. The state needs to pay for them. The cost would be astronomical and the 'funds being spent on cancer and the like' would be further diminished.

flippinada Wed 23-Apr-14 19:18:40

I agree with Anya. I am unequivocally and firmly pro choice.

I think it's fine to be pro life for oneself and refuse to countenance the idea of an abortion, but it's not ok to tell another woman she can't have one and try to legislate accordingly.

If safe, legal abortion isn't available then women will seek out unsafe, illegal abortion. It won't stop abortions but will act as a sop to the conscience of pro-life sorts.

I won't comment on the issue this further than this post, because I don't want to get sucked in to what is a maddeningly frustrating and highly charged discussion.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 23-Apr-14 19:18:40

No, I don't have to use anything that you decree. Should I choose to remove a bunch of cells from my body, scientifically proven not to feel pain until removed from my uterus, that is my right.

Fizzybangfanny Wed 23-Apr-14 19:18:56

javotte it's not a healthy debate though is it?

Posters come on just to shock in their extremism. That's unhealthy.

It's not illegal now so there is no point in harking on about the past or using it as an example.

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 19:19:20

Melonade once a man has had sex he cannot decide if the child will be born or not - does that make them second-class citizens prisoners of their own fertility?

No. Why do you ask?

SoonToBeSix Anya but the fetus is not part of her body , she is sustaining it yes but it is a separate entity whose life she is choosing to end

Well, you've answered your own question then. If the entity cannot sustain life on its own, and has not yet been born, it is not alive, but potentially capable of being alive. And it is part of the woman's body as it is connected to, and contained within the human body until birth.

Why "she" rather than "the mother" by the way? You use very leading and biased terminology.

AnyaKnowIt Wed 23-Apr-14 19:20:09

lovelyjubberly Wed 23-Apr-14 19:11:31
Yabu. Everyone has autonomy over their body, do you want autonomy to kill your baby until term then? Why stop having autonomy at 24 weeks?

I am against abortion, I don't go out and protest or anything like that, but I do disagree with it being available on the NHS. I'd rather funds were spent on cancer and the like. I love babies and don't want my taxes

Bet a abortion is a damn sight cheaper then the pre natal care, labour, post natal and 18 plus years in care.

MyrtleDove Wed 23-Apr-14 19:20:14

Lovely I take it you want women to die from backstreet abortions then? Because that is what happens when abortion is only available privately, as the Call The Midwife nuns I mentioned earlier would be only too glad to educate you about. Good to know you think so little of women's lives that you think only the rich ones are worth saving, and fuck the poor women who can't afford an abortion.

Nothing like abortion for bringing out the misogynists.

This thread is not accepting new messages.