to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

(591 Posts)
fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:35:41

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

angelos02 Wed 23-Apr-14 15:37:06

Worrying about mass immigration does not equal racism. Simple as peas.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Apr-14 15:39:29

Howling rarely achieves anything but pointing out that an opinion or action is unacceptable in a free society is very important. It may not change the views of the determined bigot but if the majority stay silent, we end up in the shit.

Calling racists, racists seems like a worthwhile use of time.

If indeed they are racists.

Burren Wed 23-Apr-14 15:40:45

What do you suggest as an alternative method of pointing out racist assumptions or language, OP? Painting a picture? Mime?

Martorana Wed 23-Apr-14 15:41:27

Interpretive dance?

JumpingJackSprat Wed 23-Apr-14 15:42:03

Ukip are racist though. As are their supporters and anyone who votes for them.

softlysoftly Wed 23-Apr-14 15:43:19

But anyone who supports UKIP is a racist confused

gordyslovesheep Wed 23-Apr-14 15:43:22

howling??? how do you howl at people in print?

UKIP are a racist party - I don't need to howl that at anyone - most sane people get it

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:44:13

pointing out that an opinion or action is unacceptable in a free society is very important.

Abolutely Cogito. However, I can't help but worry about the risk of entrenching people in their wrongheadedness. If you've drawn out someone's line of reasoning and gently challenged the constituent parts and it still seems that they are just innately bigotted; well that is one think. In my RL experience, though, people are often just parroting inherited or second hand views and can me amenable to reason. If you bellow 'racist' from the off, you miss that chance to put a differing view.

gordyslovesheep Wed 23-Apr-14 15:44:29

the medium of Morris Dancing? dragon

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:44:33

one thing ^

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:46:03

If indeed they are racists.

Exactly Laurie. How does one tell over all the bellowing?

softlysoftly Wed 23-Apr-14 15:46:09

I have never seen YOU ARE A RACIST GAAAAHHHH written on a thread though?

Jinsei Wed 23-Apr-14 15:47:44

I guess we could call them stupid bigoted twats instead. Would that be better? <helpful>

Folk who are voting Ukip are either racist or racist while being too stupid to know it.

Perhaps you mean we shouldn't point out racism to stupid people? In case it makes them cry?

I don't agree though. I think we should just tell folk they're racist.

The real racists won't care but the stupid people might fuck off to look at a book.

Martorana Wed 23-Apr-14 15:49:33

I'd love the opportunity to "gently challenge" Nigel Farrage.....

bigdog888 Wed 23-Apr-14 15:49:58

But anyone who supports UKIPisa racist

Absolute bollocks.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Apr-14 15:51:08

Again... 'bellowing' like 'howling' does nothing. Even persuasion and reasoned argument is likely to fail against a thick-headed bigot with no internal logic beyond 'not got a job' .. 'foreigners bad' ... 'bad foreigner took my job'. Nevertheless, we have to collectively challenge bigotry and racism for the sake of anyone else suckered into the simplistic solutions offered by those pedalling it.

Check your history books for what happens when simplistic racist solutions go unchallenged and gain popularity... hmm

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:52:35

I don't think everyone sees UKIP as racist though. If they would helpfully adopt 'your friendly neighbourhood racists' as a tagline it would simplify matters no end. But, let's face it, that won't happen.

In the meantime, I am concerned that they are picking up the potential votes of the uninformed.

MrsDeVere Wed 23-Apr-14 15:52:45

I have got a bit tired of trying to have reasonable conversations with people with abhorrent views based on misinformation and bigotry.

So yep I have been known to simply post 'fuck off you racist cunt' on rare occasions.

You get fed up of being the reasonable, nice one sometimes.

Particularly with people who believe that your marriage should be illegal and your children are mongrels who will grow up to be lazy, scrounging sexual predators.

But I would support a howling ban and even a moratorium on 'you are racist' IF we had a ban on 'you are only pretending to like immigration because you want to be seen as liberal', 'if you had to live with the effects of immigration you wouldn't be so relaxed about it!', 'Oh here we go, the PC brigade' and any mention of middle class bubbles, ivory towers or guardian readers.

That wouldn't work though. Its the fall back argument of every Ukip supporter I have ever debated with. If you don't agree its because you are a.lying or b.just DON'T UNDERSTAND!

So sometimes only a 'fuck off racist' will do I am afraid sad

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:53:44

Well it is challenging them that I am suggesting Cog

Challenging and dismissing not being the same thing.

fluffyraggies Wed 23-Apr-14 15:55:55

I agree with you OP.

''That is a racist comment because ... x, y, z''

is more likely to change a viewpoint than

''You fucking racist'. Especially if the person in question is indeed simply parroting the cliches/insults they've heard others using. Lazy racism, i think of it as.

fidelineish Wed 23-Apr-14 15:57:18

I am sure 'fuck off you racist cunt' was quite appropriate on those occasions MrsDV (and more besides).

I suppose I think there are people who can still be saved <channels inner missionary>

But I would support a howling ban and even a moratorium on 'you are racist' IF we had a ban on 'you are only pretending to like immigration because you want to be seen as liberal', 'if you had to live with the effects of immigration you wouldn't be so relaxed about it!', 'Oh here we go, the PC brigade' and any mention of middle class bubbles, ivory towers or guardian readers.

Crikey. Good luck with that hmm Be fun to try to enforce though.

I would love to see your Morris dancing BTW Gordy but I am not hopeful of its educative properties smile

bigdog888 Wed 23-Apr-14 15:59:57

I'll certainly be voting UKIP in the upcoming European elections, quite possibly in the next general election too but I worry that may assist the Labour cunts getting back in!

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now