To think this is cruel?

[fruitandnuttycake]

There is a bit of a back story to this so sorry if I'm waffling! A few years ago my PIL loaned my BIL the money to buy his own house, BIL lives in the same town as PIL. They also did up his house as a gift. PIL have always said that they would do this for us when we made the decision to buy (we have always lived in a different town to MIL and my parents). She even boasted to my mother that she would loan us the money for our first purchased home.

A couple of years ago we had to relocate to a new location as it was the only place we could both find good jobs. This location happens to be in the middle between were both sets of parent's live. We said we would rent first to decide if we like the area. We have recently had a baby, which has hit PIL hard, and everytime we visit they drop loads of less then subtle hints that we should move. The finances are hard at the moment, having dropped my wage and we are very strapped for cash. DH's job OK pay but is with a good company and has brilliant prospects, it's also a good area for schools etc.

PIL have now said to us that unless we move, they will not help us out at all with a house purchase. TBH I would rather not accept money from people who are going to hold power over us/ use the loan to control our lives, however, every time we see/speak to them they always tease us with "wouldn't you love to have your own home", "fruitandnuttycake, you could go back to work if you lived here because I could provide childcare", "we could do up a lovely nursery for you", "it's so cruel that you have taken our grandchild away from us". Its a real tease as we cannot afford a deposit at the moment and the finances are hard, they are using the cash as a carrot on a stick and it just makes us feel like shit. DH tells them off for it at the time but I know it hits him hard seeing his parent's upset.

We just cannot move, DH would never be able to find a job as good as his there, he would have to accept a job a little more than min wage with poor prospects so we probably wouldn't get a mortgage anyway, nor do I want to accept a loan for them.

AIBU to think that what they are doing to their youngest son and his family is very mean and manipulative, I know it's their money and they can do what they like with it, but having recently become a mum myself I cannot imagine treating my children this way.

[SapphireMoon]

I think I would back off from them for a while until they can behave better.
Just be a little lees available for seeing/ chat for long time on the phone etc to them for a while.
It is manipulative and they are being unfair. Money has too many strings attached..

[LaurieFairyCake]

Move and commute? Is that an option?

I think theyre being manipulative but I would also be applying for jobs near them to give it a try.

[Babyroobs]

They sound awful and I would be keeping my distance from them. I wouldn't take any help from them even if it means not getting your own home just yet.

[thereisnoeleventeen]

Blimey, they are a pair. Wow, yes very mean. I guess its only manipulative if you give in, which I presume you won't because it sounds like you have stuff sorted out ad going well without their help. I wonder how duty bound and obligated your BIL feels by his parents? I should imagine it could feel quite suffocating.

Don't feel guilty for one moment that you are not giving in!

[MyNameIsKenAdams]

There is no way on earth id hand over my dc to them for childcare when they are so manipulative and frankly, batty.

Stay away. Stand on your own two feet. Better to not have strings attached.

[JonSnowIsAProperLover]

Personally I'd dodge them entirely until they stop behaving like gobshites.

What you've described really isn't how people you supposedly love should be treated.

Even if you move they won't cough up. If they wanted to help you financially they would. Now.

Any loan will be mentioned forever. "You must do this because we gave you £££££." "Don't forget we gave you ££££."

Tedious.

[TheBody]

it's an offer you either take or accept.

they can only manipulate you if you allow them to.

I imagine your bil is very happy they brought him a house and did it up.

it's your call. could you move nearer and your dh commute? that way you get a house.

depends if you want to feel obligated or not.

for me it would depend on the size of the house.

[diddl]

They sound downright nasty.

I would advise as little contact as possible!

And someone needs to tell them to stfu!

[ICanSeeTheSun]

Just tell them you are happy renting.

[fruitandnuttycake]

Thanks for the replies everyone

LaurieFairyCake, we did think about a commute, however the only way it would be possible is if DH lived in digs during the week, which we would not like, it would also make it more difficult for him to do the odd weekend shift which brings in a bit of extra cash.

It's also put us off taking them up on their offer because if we do, what else will they demand from us in the future?

[diddl]

If they only want to give a loan on a house where they live then that of course is up to them.

But surely with their attitude it'll make you less likely to think about ways of moving back!

[NoNoNoNoNoYabu]

Awful, I honestly wouldn't take a penny.

and I'd dog train them - every single time on yhe phone they mention money/distance say you have to go and hang up. In person develop an urgent need for the toilet at each opportunity. Do not let them see you quiver and hopefully it will teach them being bastards they get no pleasant chat.

Be overtly nice so you can go stone cold after they have raised the issue and cut your visit short

[LegoCaltrops]

They are behaving like this now, you don't even live near them. Imagine how they might behave once you do live near them, have accepted a large financial gift from them, and are reliant on them for childcare. Would it really be worth it? And don't forget, they are getting older, care goes both ways.

[Whatisaweekend]

"DH tells them off for it all the time" and yet they still continue!! Time to Lose Your Rag, I think, so that they are under illusion that you think that their behaviour is absolutely vile - utterly manipulative and emotionally blackmailing. Mind you, if this is the way they act, I don't think I would be touching their money with a barge pole as it looks like it will come with too many strings attached!

[Peekingduck]

Would you want them to provide childcare for you to return to work? I'm not sure I would, with people like these it would give them too much power.
I'd be inclined to go for the writing a joint letter option, but that's just me, I like to be able to order my thoughts. I'd lay out what you've explained here, particularly about the damage a move would do to your husband's job prospects. I'd point out that you haven't taken their grandchild away from them because they clearly still see their grandchild. Say that you and DH have thought long and hard and feel that the best option for you as a family it to stay in this area. If that means that they won't help you with a house purchase in the future you will accept that, and would prefer a final decision rather than having the possibility used as a way to force you to move to a different area. Finish by saying that you want to bring speculation and pressure about where you are going to live and whether they will help you to buy to a conclusion and then move on. Their behaviour now is making their visits miserable for you and you are coming to dread them visiting as a result. In order for you all to enjoy each other's company this needs to end now.

Something like that...

[Sixweekstowait]

Run, run as fast as you can- away. I agree with those who say that if you accept their help, it will get worse and worse - they will interfere with every choice you want to make re the house. And as for child care - with their values?

[Peekingduck]

I like the dog training idea, but I'd be tougher. Every time they start on this in your home tell them you don't want to discuss it, pick up your child and leave the room. If they continue leave the house!

[AnyFucker]

A house isn't worth the price you would pay for making yourselves beholden to them

Stay as you are...independent and obligation free, that is priceless

[wowfudge]

YANBU OP - what a dreadful way for your PIL to behave. You don't offer to do something for someone then put conditions on it in the way they have. Imagine what they may do if you did move and accept their money. They may start trying to control your lives in other ways. Criticising you for 'taking their GC away' from them is awful. If you can manage financially, even though it's hard at the moment, then don't bend to their will.

[fruitandnuttycake]

Love the dog training idea! I think we will have to try that. Along with DH, other family members, including BIL have told them off but they will not listen. I wonder what would happen if I lost my rag, I am usually a very placid person and have been just letting it slide so it may shock them in to stopping, more likely I will just be known as the bitch DIL who keeps thier GC from them (if I'm not that already!). I can see it heading for a big argument

I don't think I would take up the childcare, I can imagine if we moved it would be the case that I would "have" to go back full time so they could have the baby more, she often says to baby nuttycake "I wish you looked at me the same way you look at your mummy" etc.

They would probably insist on having a key to "our" house, In the past she has gone though all my drawers and wardrobe and ironed all my clothes, which at the time I thought was great, but I would absolutely hate that invasion on a weekly basis

[SapphireMoon]

Your last post fruitandnutty makes me feel you should stay well clear of them. Going round your house when you are not around?
I wouldn't be able to cope with that at all.
All sounds very controlling.

[thereisnoeleventeen]

It's also put us off taking them up on their offer because if we do, what else will they demand from us in the future? With people like that, who only knows! You might find you took up their offer only to turn your lives upside down a few years later so that you could get away from them.

As has already been said,the idea if them looking after your DC's is an awful one. I have friends who leave their DC's with parents so they can go back to work, those grandparents don't expect anything emotional in return and support the decisions that my friends make when bringing up their DC's...based on their track record it doesn't sound like your PILs would do the same.

[LessMissAbs]

OMG no! Stay independent!Can you imagine what it would be like living in their pockets, having your every move analysed and commented upon? Or what influence it would have on your children long term?

Your PIL sound really odd, obsessed with family and as,if they have nothing else in their lives.

My BIL and SIL are never away from PIL, its like competitive grandparenting, they all watch each others move so one doesn't get an upper hand in the inheritance stakes, and the children are used like a weapon for PIL's attention. As a result, theyre turning out really rude and judgemental. Its awful to watch, they barely have any independent lives between them all. DH and I are so glad we are out of that, even though it means we'll be left out of the inheritance - who cares?!