to think that School (trip) type holidays are unjustifiable if parents can't take their own kids out of School.

(45 Posts)
morchoxplz Sat 15-Mar-14 20:57:46

Firstly no sour grapes here. My DH is a teacher so we can never go away in term time anyway.
I can't believe School ski trips/sight seeing tours/outward bound trips are still happening in term time.
It's mostly only the wealthier families who can afford to send their kids anyway. In addition to that the kids left behnat School have cover supervisor teachers as 'sir' is on the ski trip.
I have no problem with these trips happening in the holidays but they are mostly in term time.

morchoxplz Sat 15-Mar-14 20:58:47

*behind at School

Herecomesthesciencebint Sat 15-Mar-14 21:00:48

Really schools do that? Ski trips in term time that only some parents can afford to send kids on? That's awful.

MidniteScribbler Sat 15-Mar-14 21:01:07

At our school, excursions are just one day and are related to what is currently being studied in the classroom. Years 3 and 6 have a three and four day camp respectively which all students attend and also are curriculum based. Any ski trips or overseas trips happen in the holidays.

kim147 Sat 15-Mar-14 21:01:43

Interesting - I look at this from a primary perspective. If the whole class is going on a school trip, then everyone is in the same boat so no class learning is lost.

Now - as has happened, if only some children are going, then the others aren't learning much as they've been left behind - or they are learning and the ones on the trip are missing out.

In secondary - I can see it might be disruptive if you have half your maths class away on a skiing trip - but the school would say it's good for them. But a family holiday skiing isn't if they miss school. confused

phantomnamechanger Sat 15-Mar-14 21:01:56

At DDs school the educational trips eg trip to belgian battlefields, or sightseeing in PAris, are in school time. The ski trips/cruises etc are not.

Outdoor activity type "holidays" can be very very educational indeed, they foster team building and independence, resourcefulness, problem solving, as well as giving kids the chance to try new activities.

Silkyandmoonface Sat 15-Mar-14 21:03:58

Same here. All children attend educational residentials. All the secondary schools in our area that run skiing holiday type trips do so in half terms or easter holidays and staff give up their own time.
I cannot imagine parents/governors etc in our area standing for the situation you describe in you OP.

chicaguapa Sat 15-Mar-14 21:05:41

At DD's secondary school these kinds of trips happen in the holidays, (when presumably the teachers have given up their own holidays to take them).

Coldlightofday Sat 15-Mar-14 21:06:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shebird Sat 15-Mar-14 21:09:06

I recently posted something similar, nothing against school trips but wondered how it might be viewed by parents as a bit hypocritical. Even if you would prefer you child to stay behind and catch up on maths instead of spending 3 days rolling in mud and climbing trees there is no point as 'sir' is also climbing trees.

Corabell Sat 15-Mar-14 21:10:33

HT are pretty unlikely to approve those type of trips in term time ( give or take 1 or 2 days) - at my school they always, always happen during holidays. One exception is this which occur in the final week of the summer term which coincides with activites week anyway.

Believe it or not teachers prefer to have whole classes sat in front of them anyway as its a massive disruption for learning and teaching during term for their own classes if they were to leave to run a trip.

Having run and participated in numerous excursions I am still laughing at the word holidays being used in association with school excursion.

LittleMissCrankyPants Sat 15-Mar-14 21:10:56

My sons (secondary school) is in school time, 5 days to another country.

WorraLiberty Sat 15-Mar-14 21:11:48

At my DC's senior school the trips are all relevant to their studies

So for example if you're not studying French, you don't get invited on a trip to France.

If you haven't taken History, you don't get invited on the trip to Auswitch

PansOnFire Sat 15-Mar-14 21:14:24

YABU, all school trips have to have an educational value to be granted and of course that includes the sight seeing ones. Going away as part of the school is a valuable experience for children and can teach them skills that they wouldn't learn whilst on a family beach holiday. It's not always the wealthiest children who can go, there are funds to help children from disadvantaged backgrounds etc to ensure that they don't miss out and schools are expected to be inclusive.

School trips are part of the extended curriculum which schools are expected to provide, although no teacher can be forced to attend it is in most job descriptions to support the extended curriculum, and tbh most teachers want to help to provide these opportunities. I do not want a debate about teachers' holidays but I'm sure that most people wouldn't spend their holiday weeks away from their families and choose to carry on working, which is what would happen if trips and visits were to happen for teachers during school holidays.

I think the main reason for it is because if school ran their trips and visits during the holidays then that would take up every opportunity that families would have to have a holiday together. At the moment, the main complaint is that family holidays are valuable and have been made impossible by not allowing children to be taken out of school during term time. If schools then chose to take classes away during the holidays then when do children spend time with their families?

I see your point but it's not a simple case of schools taking liberties.

WorrySighWorrySigh Sat 15-Mar-14 21:26:27

YANBU. In my experience school trips add very little compared to the disruption they cause and their cost.

I dont agree that going away with the school is automatically a valuable experience. A few people will claim that their child benefited hugely but for the vast majority it is all a bit 'meh'.

School funds may help the very poorest to attend but they arent available for the squeezed middle. A school skiing trip or a French/German trip may well mean that the family dont go on holiday that year.

GreenShadow Sat 15-Mar-14 21:29:44

Where we live, trips, including educational ones, only happen during the holidays.

Calloh Sat 15-Mar-14 21:41:47

Our primary school does a skiing trip for those who want to go from Y5 and Y6. It happens in term time once every two years.

I hadn't thought about this in relation to the difficult of going for a normal family holiday in term time and whether it's disruptive. I assume the HT/school doesn't find it so otherwise they would stop it. And one week every two years at a time that the school chooses is a bit different from pupils in and out many weeks over the year. Going in term time makes if more affordable.

I do think there is a value in going away independently of your parents and I hope it carries on.

WorrySighWorrySigh Sat 15-Mar-14 21:51:44

Our primary school does a skiing trip for those who want to go from Y5 and Y6.

Isnt that can afford to go not want to go?

morchoxplz Sat 15-Mar-14 22:25:37

No problem with kids going independently of their parenting it should be in the holidays.

Calloh Sat 15-Mar-14 22:26:17

Yes, it is for those who can afford to go and want to go . Although I don't know if there is help available for those who want to go but really can't afford it.

WorrySighWorrySigh Sat 15-Mar-14 22:39:46

State school Calloh?

In my opinion state schools should only offer trips which are affordable for all.

Of course someone will come on and say something about expensive trips being good for teaching the poorer kids that life isnt fair (like they needed that type of lesson).

mummymeister Sat 15-Mar-14 22:53:03

3 DC's in state school. all the trips - all of them - are in term time. 1 week outward bound over £800 each! language trips with only 30 places for 120 kids so the others are just left behind - over £400 for this one plus you can only go if you can offer an exchange. 2 skiing trips both over £1000 each and again in term time with a limited number of places. so even if you can afford it, you might not get picked. this is just another reason why I find the no holidays in term time so obnoxious. Each of these trips takes teachers out and those left behind are left with cover only. 2 out of the 3 schools are now offering trips to India. not just the cost but the jabs the equipment etc. very unfair on those kids who cannot afford them. the only option for poor families is that they can spread the cost out more, no grants/funds available they just don't go. how is that enriching to them then?

Calloh Sat 15-Mar-14 22:57:13

It is state school Worry.

And I totally agree with ypu that it is ridiculous to say that any child needs an education on the unfairness of life through not being able to afford to go on a school trip.

I hadn't thought much before on how it would make children feel whose parents can't afford to send them. (We're a long way off getting to that age yet).

Maybe the children going in holidays would make it less obvious as to who's going and who is not - take-up is not massive - but that would then increase price. It also makes skiing more affordable as only one child had to be paid for as opposed to the whole family.

I don't know what the most fair, all-inclusive way would be to do it but I'm not sure either that just stopping the trips all together would be the best way.

mummymeister Sat 15-Mar-14 23:01:43

Fairest way is to offer all trips to all eligible pupils (so if it is to france then those doing gcse French for example) and to either price them so that parents can afford them or subsidise them so that they can. senior schools make a big fuss about the trips abroad - waving the coach off, newsletter info on the trips, presentations about the trips in assembly, hardly low key. and really really rubbish on those kids who cant go and never go.

dayshiftdoris Sat 15-Mar-14 23:12:32

Our primary school offers a residential in term time... They are unable to take the whole year group.

My son wouldn't had managed on it so didnt go when it was offered.

I was very unhappy this year when I discovered his class teacher goes on this trip... Not her year group or her class - she just 'likes' to go angryangryangry

We got him through it but a great deal of input was needed... It needs a re-think

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