To think at least 50% of the Adult Population would fail the 11+ Exam

(60 Posts)
motown3000 Fri 14-Mar-14 08:56:56

A light hearted, but none the less interesting post . I was wondering what percentage of the Adult population ( Including Graduates) who if the were given an 11+ Exam would fail ( Some even after having practice) and "Tutoring". I had two daughters go through the 11+ one passed one Failed, and also a Niece/Nephew who both passed.

The other interesting point though it would highlight how poor ( relatively) some adults Literacy and Numeracy skills are.

ReallyTired Sat 15-Mar-14 21:58:10

The eleven plus doesn't test literacy or numeracy skills. Verbal and numerical reasoning is something completely different. The theory of the eleven plus was that such tests were uncoachable and they would pick out the bright working class child who had been to a medicore primary. Unfortunately all tests are coachable.

All that verbal and numerical reasoning tests test is the innate ablity to do verbal and numerial reasoning tests. This is not the same as intelligence. Assessing someone's intelligence is complex as there are ablities that make someone sucessful which aren't easily tested in a multiple choice paper test.

I don't see it as an issue that lots of adults would not do well at verbal or numerical reasoning inspite of having excellent numeracy and literacy. Every day life does not require complicated pattern matching or working out anagrams. It is perfectly possible to get a good degree, have a good career inspite of not being able to tell if the next object in a silly sequence is a triangle with a dot in the middle or a black square with a circle.

Prehaps the fact that the ablity to do verbal or numerical reasoning papers does not correspond with the ablity to be sucessful is why the eleven plus is unfair. It write off children at far to early an age.

motown3000 Sat 15-Mar-14 21:55:43

Beg you pardon "£62.50" + 250= £312.50 62.50 is a quarter of £250...
Now you know why....

motown3000 Sat 15-Mar-14 21:50:47

Green. I am 42, Got 12/15 on that Test and achieved an E in 1989 .

You know what that means don't you with all the "Dumbing Down" It means that an E in 1989 is equal to an A* in 2003..... LOL....

On a serious note though, the Maths teaching I received was non existent . I took a test in the "Devils Newspaper" on Tuesday and got all the questions right apart from the last one which asked if the price of something was £ 250 with 20% off what was it is original . The answer I gave was £300 adding 2 lots of 25 , I looked at the answer in the paper and it was £312.50 , I could not work it out and then I realised ( No One ever told me) after playing about with numbers in my head that you times it by 1.25 so a 75 is a a quarter of 250 add = 325.

The point I am saying is if you were not taught formulas or ways to Calculate Sums, it is the Teaching that has let people down.

GreenLandsOfHome Sat 15-Mar-14 21:34:02

I don't think the BBC one means much maybe sour grapes

I got 11 out of 15. I have an A* at GCSE maths and a B at A Level Pure Maths!

(And i'm 'only' 27 so it wasn't all that long ago)

80sMum Sat 15-Mar-14 20:47:26

Oh dear, only got 12 out of 15 in the BBC test. I passed the 11+ at school in 1969 and got a grammar school place. About 10 of us in the year group passed, out of over 60 children.

motown3000 Sat 15-Mar-14 20:39:39

Really Tired. Its not really "Shocking" if the Child is 11 or 12. What is shocking though is that most Adults who have left School at 16,17 or 18 do not have the same Verbal/ Maths or English Skills as bright 11 Year Olds.

Non Verbal Reasoning is very unfair on Dyspraxic or Dyslexia Sufferers and thankfully some L.A have reduced the Importance, or dropped it completely.

ReallyTired Sat 15-Mar-14 20:15:08

The eleven plus is a mixture of verbal and non verbal reasoning. It is designed to pick out the brightest. I imagine that 80% of adults would fail it. Why is that so shocking?

motown3000 Sat 15-Mar-14 20:03:39

The Post from Gert the Flirt is very interesting , that the Government is very concerned and set up the Numeracy Challenge to improve Numeracy.

Incidentally how much of People's problem with Maths is down to poor Teaching?

I only got an E grade at Gcse but have not found a problem with maths ( OK I could Probably not do advanced maths but then again if you have not been taught the formula's who could) . Most Mental Arithmetic and statistical Maths I am able to do with/ or without a Calculator . This is the kind of Maths that is required in the world.

frumpity33higswash Sat 15-Mar-14 12:07:22

MOTOWN 3000 Yes, probably more than 50pc would fail. When children take it they are educated and coached for the exam. I would fail miserably now. But I have been to the university of life, Counts for something.

GertTheFlirt Sat 15-Mar-14 11:26:50

I agree with fusedog

Even brain surgeons need their bind emptied.

Fusedog Sat 15-Mar-14 11:17:28

And the whole point is to sort the wheat from the chaff


I really hate this new attitude that very one must get a prize Not every one is academic get over it

tb Sat 15-Mar-14 11:06:50

I went to school in Cheshire which had stopped the 11+, and replaced it with the 9+ and the 10+. They then extrapolated the results to predict an expected score for the 11+.

I passed, and also passed an entrance exam to another school where 50% of the year had grammar school places. Rumour had it that the people with these places were in the top 2% of the 11+ pass list.

There were no practice tests at school, no coaching - that I was aware of, you just did the test on the day, and that was it.

However, the primary school I went to prepared children for the Common Entrance exam, so in my last year at primary I was factorising quadratic equations, solving simultaneous ones and doing a latin grammar test every Friday morning after break. So, it wasn't quite the ordinary run of the mill primary.

splasheeny Sat 15-Mar-14 00:45:26

I failed but then went on to get 11 gcses and 5 a levels at top grades.

Nappaholic Fri 14-Mar-14 23:55:02

I was extremely proud of my son when he sat the 11+ last September, never mind when he passes AND was offered a place at the local grammar school. What I remember most about those few last weeks of swotting though, was how quick he had to be...something like an average of 45 seconds for each verbal reasoning question, and just over a minute for each maths question. Coping under that kind of time pressure was the real test. I think most people could pass the exam given enough time to do it in.

EurotrashGirl Fri 14-Mar-14 23:48:19

YANBU. There is a US TV quiz show called "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?" (5th grade= age 10/11)

GertTheFlirt Fri 14-Mar-14 23:43:40

To think at least 50% of the Adult Population would fail the 11+ Exam

Of course they would, three quarters of the adult population are functionally innumerate and 44% are functionally illiterate.

This little quiz bandied about on MN this week shows the innumeracy

*The drive is aimed at the 78% of UK adults with an understanding of numeracy below the equivalent of Level 2 (GCSE grades A-C).

www.nationalnumeracy.org.uk/the-challenge-online/index.html

DramaAlpaca Fri 14-Mar-14 23:38:06

I passed the 11+ in 1975 & went to a girls' grammar.

No idea how I'd do now with the real thing, but I got full marks on the BBC test. I answered the verbal ones very quickly, but was slower on the numerical ones.

At my age I'm just glad that my menopausal brain is clearly still functioning smile

StarGazeyPond Fri 14-Mar-14 23:30:01

I had the dubious honour of taking the 11+ twice. I think it was the only year they did it twice for the same children. I failed both times.

dancingnancy Fri 14-Mar-14 23:17:37

Jesus! Did the BBC thing. 9 out of 15 and says Grammar beckons so s that a pass. I really struggled with the concepts. The ones In attempted I got right but spent the rest of the time just staring trying to make sense of the wording. No wonder folk coach their children.

bakewelltartandcustard Fri 14-Mar-14 21:40:55

When all children did the 11+ exams only 20% passed. I believe girls were marked down because, being more mature than the boys, they would have gained more of the precious grammar school places.
You needed an IQ of at least 120 to pass.

Bunnyjo Fri 14-Mar-14 21:03:16

I passed with 15/15 on the BBC test, but then I am currently at University and got a pretty decent score on a UKCAT recently too.

ThinkLikeASpoooooon Fri 14-Mar-14 20:18:07

Id prob fail.

CorusKate Fri 14-Mar-14 20:17:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CorusKate - you is an undiscovered Genius my friend grin

I don't do puzzles or IQ tests ever - in fact when I was doing it I had to really force it as my brain went 'ugh, can't be arsed' . In fact I find it really hard now to force myself to do things I don't want to do.

AnnabelleLee Fri 14-Mar-14 19:55:08

^Literacy and numeracy are not the be all and end all"

hmm
Seriously? They are basic skills that almost everyone should have. That anyone leaves school without is a shocking thing.

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