To be bloody annoyed at family for facilitating this

(102 Posts)
Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:25:26

Disclaimer - not a benefits bash thread, only referring to THIS particular case!!
A family member is 20 and has never worked. She has very mild SN but is mainly very lazy and spoilt. She has a baby at 16 and stayed at her mums, who does everything for this child while the mum buys crap with her child benefit. When she was told that after September when her child starts school she would have to go onto JSA and start looking for work she has now deliberately got pg - not speculating here she freely admits it.
Her mum has decided she doesn't want her and 2 children living there so has told her she has to move out. Another family member has bought a small house for her to rent. Rent will be paid by housing benefit. Apparently family member gets somewhere to live for free and other family member will end up owning a house where her mortgage is covered by benefits!!
I appreciate this doesn't really affect me but I am avoiding these people now as when asked what I think I will have to tell them and here will be falling out ( which may be a good thing??)

sashh Sat 01-Mar-14 07:11:31

Relative buying house is her sister but has different name as she is married - HB won't even know they are related I wouldn't think.

They do ask on the form so wither they will know or she will be committing fraud.

KitZacJak Fri 28-Feb-14 11:50:50

YABU - It looks as if her mother is making her face up to her responsibilities by moving out so I am not sure you could say she is facilitating her now. If the mother carried on with her at home and doing everything for her that would be facilitating her! She will get a shock when she has to do everything for herself and hopefully it will be the making of her.

Regarding the housing benefit, she would be paying one landlord or another so why not a relation? It is not illegal (I don't think) as that relative could easily rent to another person on housing benefit so why not her?

HermioneWeasley Fri 28-Feb-14 11:19:56

The world had gone mad. It should not be an option not to work if you can work, and you say she's secured roles and then been fired from them due to reliability.

The welfare state shouldn't be a lifestyle choice.

Hoppinggreen Fri 28-Feb-14 11:10:25

Right, last comment from me on here.
Title of thread was AIBU to be bloody annoyed. I am talking about how I FEEL about this.
I am not marching down to HB to demand they investigate, I am not rounding up a mob complete with pitchforks and flaming torches, I am not actually doing anything other than venting on a public forum about a situation I personally don't agree with - it's hardly stabbing kittens is it?
I personally don't feel this situation is right, I don't actually have an alternative suggestion at this point and if I did nobody would listen to me anyway because this is all wonderful, deliberately having another baby to avoid working is wonderful and we should all rush round to congratulate everyone on how clever they have been.
As for the benefits questions - if I can afford to then yes I would support my children rather than them claim benefits and yes I would claim them myself if I had no other option but NO I wouldn't deliberately engineer a situation to take advantage of the system.

BrianTheMole Fri 28-Feb-14 10:33:06

So you're jealous of the sister whose going to take on on the hassles of being a landlord. And you're jealous of the family member who has no money, has sn and two kids at age 20. But fortunately will have somewhere to live. Or maybe you're jealous because you want to be a landlord yourself.

And you still haven't answered the question. Would you claim benefits yourself if you needed to? If not, how would you live?

HobbetInTheHeadlights Fri 28-Feb-14 10:30:42

Oh I've spent years hearing about my parents bail out older sibling from yet another financial mess and being told how the help out younger sibling constantly with childcare and small amount of cash.

Best thing for my sanity - disengage and try and avoid the topic.

Nothing I said change the way my parents dealt with them - and I had no power to intervene. So not engaging in situations that I didn't agree with and yes - did feel a little jealous with - only control I had/have and best thing for me not being wound up with stuff I couldn't change.

HobbetInTheHeadlights Fri 28-Feb-14 10:25:22

I don't get this.

Sound like the family are trying to step back and get this woman to take on more responsibility and take it off the GM - perhaps there are underlying reasons for this getting to much for her or perhaps she has just had enough.

Yes they are using their financial resource to do this - buying a house - but many private landlords won't take HB claimants and social housing takes year to come though.

Perhaps that the only way to do it perhaps the family couldn't make a vulnerable 20 with 2 DC homeless as they would need to do to access help. Plus this way they can keep a good eye on the DC and see they are cared for.

I think the sister is taking a huge risk - her sister might be a very poor tenant she may well end up having issue with getting HB and will it be enough to cover mortgage and if she doesn't get it and can she affor the house in those circumstances.

If you don't agree don't comment on it and change the subject or leave the room - or alternatively tell them you don't agree and deal with the consequences of that.

forbreakfast Fri 28-Feb-14 10:18:30

"Why is it if you don't approve of someone's actions you are automatically assumed to be jealous?"

Oh I don't know. This perhaps:

"I suppose I may be a bit jealous of someone who has never worked and seems to have a lifestyle better than the one I have worked really hard for."

Hoppinggreen Fri 28-Feb-14 10:04:04

I will be monitoring the situation and if I feel the children aren't being looked after then I will be taking action.
Why is it if you don't approve of someone's actions you are automatically assumed to be jealous?
I am not going into details about my life on here but believe me it's pretty good and I wouldn't want any part of this other persons life.
The only bit that I suppose could be construed as jealousy is the fact that this person does what she wants when she wants with no thought fior anyone else and other people pick up the pieces and I am very self sufficient - so I suppose it would be nice to just think " fuck it, I'm doing this and someone else will sort it out if it goes wrong and there will be no consequences for me"
I think my main issue is being badgered to agree that this whole shitstorm is wonderful and even not commenting at all isn't enough apparently - I'm supposed to offer congratulations all round.

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Fri 28-Feb-14 09:55:57

Who do you think is at fault?

The prospective landlord or the tenent ?

If your worried about kids call SS.

Would you react like this is relative bought house to let and the let it to some one else on benefits?

Do you think private landlords should not let to benefits?

I think you are being miserable and jealous

BrianTheMole Fri 28-Feb-14 09:49:43

Would you not use the benefits system if you needed to then op? What would you do for money? Would you ask your parents to pay your bills instead?

Hoppinggreen Fri 28-Feb-14 09:24:40

Somehow it seems I have given everyone the impression that I want this family to have a shit life and will be happy when this all goes hideously wrong. That's not the case at all.
What I want ( and will never get I know) is as follows
Family not to take advantage of the benefits system
The children to be well looked after
People to stop telling me how wonderful this situation is and that I'm miserable for not agreeing enthusiastically.

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Fri 28-Feb-14 08:28:56

weekend we have a few properties and it's a PITA. Think very carefully about it. It's not as easy as it seems.

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Fri 28-Feb-14 08:24:27

It dosnt matter that the house was specifically bought for her, she is entitled to the HB.

I don't see the problem with it at all.

It seems you are pissed off as she has had an easy ride.

She will come down to earth with a bump as benefits ae not that much and she will probably struggle . She will probably go down the route of trotting off to bright house or other rip off lenders for a swanky settee and a plasma, then you can moan she has better tv than you.

The reality is she probably won't pay the lenders, her credit will be shit and she won't have a pot to piss in.

WeekendsAreHappyDays Thu 27-Feb-14 22:33:40

Can someone explain contrived tenancy - Ive been thinking of something similar - I want an investment property and i have a distant cousin who rents from a shitty landlord on a hpuse with damp - I was debating getting her a nice house so she had a nice longterm home (obviously I hope long term she will have a home of her own).

It just seemed a win win situation.

I didnt actually realise it was illegal or frowmed upon.

EverythingCounts Thu 27-Feb-14 22:32:17

Just say 'Yes, yes, lovely', when anyone in the family speaks of any of it and don't get drawn into any further discussion. I sympathise with your viewpoint (while also thinking that this girl's life is nothing to get envious about) but it will do no good, ever, to say how you feel about it. You will then end up as the bad guy and that would be harsh. So keep your thoughts to yourself and just wait for events to take their course. I would bet that in 10 years' time there'll be a lot less reason to resent any of it.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 22:31:56

So it seems AIBU but I can't help being annoyed I'm supposed to think that this is all wonderful for all involved.
Off to bed, night all

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 22:30:06

But this woman is an adult.
Her mother does not have to support her and nor does any other family member.
Her mum does not want to have the responsibility of having her adult daughter and two young children living rent free in her house.
I am confused.
On the one hand you say they have enabled her by doing too much but now they are doing wrong by not financially supporting her.

Do support adult members of your family financially?

You are not making any sense.

No one is saying you should think this is great news or applaud it.

They are saying you should back off and concentrate on your own life instead of worrying what other people are doing.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 27-Feb-14 22:29:10

Ok OP- lets say this woman decides today that she wants to work and support herself. That's not going to happen tomorrow is it? She'll have to train in something, job hunt, have her baby, all before she is bringing in a wage- she needs to live somewhere in the meantime as her mum wont have her. Where does she go? It make sense that her sister helps her out if she is able and wants to.

Laquitar Thu 27-Feb-14 22:26:11

I thought you wanted her to not rely on her mum?

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 27-Feb-14 22:26:04

Unless sister had a tidy deposit and a fixed rate for the next 25 years then she wont be making money off it. Trust me. I dont know any HB claimant who doesnt have to top up their hb money to make the rent payment. So the sister can set the rent low but unless her mortgage is v low she will have to pay the rest herself.

BrianTheMole Thu 27-Feb-14 22:25:54

But the family member is an adult. So she is entitled to claim in her own right. Because she doesn't have any money of her own. Why should her mother be forced to keep an adult with two children in her own house when she doesn't want to. Would you expect your mother to take you and your family in and support you permanently if something went wrong? Or would you claim benefits that you would be entitled to?

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 22:21:04

Her sister is making money off this situation.
There is somewhere for her to live ( with her mum)
The family have enough money to support her but instead are doing this and taking money from the state to do it.
I am glad we have a system to help people who need it and have no choice but to rely on it. This is where someone is making a choice TO rely on it. I suppose for me I believe that if your family are able to help they should rather than rely on the government to do it.
This is why it annoys me, especially since I am supposed to think that this is all great news!!

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 22:20:20

She is buying a house in order to rent it out.

Who she is intending to rent it out to is irrelevant.

She is not doing anything wrong or immoral unless you think all private LL are immoral.

Laquitar Thu 27-Feb-14 22:17:15

Well i was guessing this because you are talking about a house not a loaf of bread. In my family we dont buy houses like this. I don't say 'oh dh on your way to tesco could you buy a house please because my brother is out of work this year so i thought it will be a goid idea to buy a house and rent it to him to get his HB'.
Do you buy houses like this in your family?
In any case if you buy a second house you rent it.

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