To be bloody annoyed at family for facilitating this

(102 Posts)
Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:25:26

Disclaimer - not a benefits bash thread, only referring to THIS particular case!!
A family member is 20 and has never worked. She has very mild SN but is mainly very lazy and spoilt. She has a baby at 16 and stayed at her mums, who does everything for this child while the mum buys crap with her child benefit. When she was told that after September when her child starts school she would have to go onto JSA and start looking for work she has now deliberately got pg - not speculating here she freely admits it.
Her mum has decided she doesn't want her and 2 children living there so has told her she has to move out. Another family member has bought a small house for her to rent. Rent will be paid by housing benefit. Apparently family member gets somewhere to live for free and other family member will end up owning a house where her mortgage is covered by benefits!!
I appreciate this doesn't really affect me but I am avoiding these people now as when asked what I think I will have to tell them and here will be falling out ( which may be a good thing??)

Fontofnowt Thu 27-Feb-14 17:19:03

Aye Laurie how ever hard I try I can only imagine 20 with kids and no future a desperate state.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 17:19:28

Life's quite good by the way Laurie - it's just been bloody hard getting here!

forbreakfast Thu 27-Feb-14 17:26:04

"I certainly don't want any part of her life at all but I suppose I may be a bit jealous of someone who has never worked and seems to have a lifestyle better than the one I have worked really hard for."

It's just grubby jealousy, usually spouted by those on similar (low) incomes to those on benefits, then (better lifestyle than you, as you say).

I feel sorry for her and her children.

ApprenticeViper Thu 27-Feb-14 17:31:23

If you want to throw a spanner in the works of your relative's "charmed" life, then once the property has been bought and she's moved in, report her to the Housing Benefit Fraud department at her local council. It is a contrived tenancy, created to take advantage of the Housing Benefit scheme.

Alternatively, suck it up and accept that some people do have their path through life smoothed more than others - although if your relative's mother doesn't want two grandchildren living with her, then I'm assuming your relative will be caring for her children herself once she moves out, which will be a wake-up call for her, if nothing else.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 17:33:45

My DS's birth mother sounds like your relative.

Yes she is annoying.
No she has never had an diagnosis.
No I don't like her.
Yes she is a drain on society.

But there are aspects of her behaviour and her personality that she cannot change. You wanting to pretend that the SNs are irrelevant do not make it so.

My DS's birth mother is unemployable due to her behaviour and attitude.

Her behaviour and attitude are very much influenced by her SNs.

Perhaps if she had a different upbringing things could have been different and I am sincerely hoping this is the case for our DS.

But you know what? Some people are a bit hopeless.

Years ago this girl would have very probably been married young and allowed to bumble along having babies and being 'good enough' at life.

But now she has to have job, act as mother and father to her kids, go to parent's evenings, work out complicated bills etc.

Of course the alternative to marrying young and 'just' being a mother and housewife years ago was to have your kids taken off you and being shoved in an institution.

For all our aspirations to equality our society is actually a pretty hard place to negotiate if you have LDs.

But I don't expect you to agree with me.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 17:43:13

So it looks like to not look like a monumental cow I would need to give far more detail on here than I am able.
My actual point was about the system and how some people are actually doing this person no favours by facilitating her behaviour rather than trying to help her change it for a better life for herself and her children.
If I hadn't mentioned that she may or may not have SN I expect I wouldn't have had such a vicious attack but you live and learn.
One last thing to the person who made assumptions about my income - it's actually pretty good but I work hard for it all and the lifestyle comment was because the person in question has absolutely no outgoings at present and can spend everything she gets on whatever she wants ( plus run up debts in other peoples names but that's another issue). However, if she IS going to live on her own I suppose she will have to change this and learn about budgeting etc - I genuinely hope the family who keep helping her will realise that they are doing her no favours and that one day she will have to manage on her own. Perhaps this will be the making of her?

Fontofnowt Thu 27-Feb-14 17:58:35

I'm not attacking you and if I came across as such I apologise.
I would guess that you are also young and it makes me sad that instead of seeing your family member as needing a hand your instinct is to begrudge her what little she has.
We are being brainwashed into hating people for abusing the system instead of hating the thing that creates the need for the system.
Her life is shit.
Be the better person and shrug off the anger.

joven Thu 27-Feb-14 18:02:22

You don't look like a "monumental cow" to any reasonable minded person. There are just certain people on here who will come down like a tonne of bricks on anybody who is the slightest bit critical of somebody who makes reckless and irresponsible choices.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 18:04:09

No you are not a monumental cow but I think you are wasting far too much energy on this issue.

It is beyond your control.

Unfortunately what font says is true, we are being encouraged to hate and envy those who have less than us instead of being glad we have a better, more productive life.

You don't want to be her
Her life does not impact on yours
It is not up to you to change it.

You sound like you have a successful life. Enjoy it. Move away from this anger about someone who sounds like they have a pretty dreary life with little hope of improvement.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 18:11:23

Fair enough. I should probably just move on.
I actually don't wish this person ( and def. not her children) a crap life but this will end badly I'm sure based on past experience.
Her life could actually have been ok if the family hadn't just kept saying how she couldn't be held responsible for her ( frankly quite terrible) behaviour and not totally spoiled her.
I am just avoiding them all at the moment

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 27-Feb-14 18:11:56

If she's living with her mum the surely the only money she gets will be £20 a week

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 27-Feb-14 18:13:05

Whoops- posted too soon.

£20 a week child benefit. Or does she get income support aswel? I suppose she must if she's been told she'd be going onto JSA in september.

EurotrashGirl Thu 27-Feb-14 18:14:56

It sounds like your family member had mental health problems and is reluctant to tell others because of the perceived stigma. This would explain her mother referring to her "difficulties".

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 18:27:20

Its pretty tough having a kid with SNs
Knowing how much to push them and how much to protect them is really hard and there will always be someone around to tell you that you are expecting too much or too little from them.

I don't know what is going on with this young woman and the likelihood is that she could have achieved a lot more.

But now she is a young pregnant mother with no work experience and [apparently] undiagnosed SNs

Getting her into gainful employment whilst she manages her own household sounds like it would be too much for her at present.

Sometimes we have to be pragmatic. You can look at it the other way..thank goodness she has people to look out for her.

She is very young. She is not going to keep having children every time JSA is looming. Despite what some posters would have you think this doesn't happen on a wide scale.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Thu 27-Feb-14 18:30:51

If you think you've been 'viciously attacked' on here, I'm going to assume you don't spend a lot of time on AIBU grin

Your relative's strategy isn't great long-term, is it...? Having one baby after another to fend off the benefits people is only going to work for so long, and she's not acquiring any training or experience that will enable her to get a job when they grow up.

Plus, the rules on single parents and benefits are likely to get tighter rather than more generous, don't you think?

Plus the thing about getting HB to live in a relative's house, dodgy ground there too.

So very much not a life to envy, no.

Pheonixisrising Thu 27-Feb-14 18:42:59

I don't think you sound a cow
I think you just sound fed up with people facilitating her behaviour and life style without expecting her to help herself.
Special needs or not she must try and learn some responsibility .
Let the housing thing go , it's a safety net I think , so that you can all keep an eye on her whilst she learns to stand on her own two feet

ApocalypseThen Thu 27-Feb-14 19:00:01

I feel very sorry for your relative. It sounds like, for whatever reason, she'll never be able to live unsupported. I understand you don't like her and resent the chances you see as thrown at her and wasted, but it really sounds like she probably does have some extra needs or personal limitations which you are very lucky to not have.

I fear for what will become of her (and her children) when her mother passes away.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 19:01:24

No need Apocolypse, there are other family members around.
Whatever else we will always ensure the kids are ok

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 27-Feb-14 19:05:29

Maybe the rest of the family have the same feelings about her though OP- as in they know they will always make sure she is ok and so are doing just that. Her children will grow up and could have similar issues, you say you will always make sure they are ok- but what if they follow her path? Will you still make sure they are ok?

Cigarettesandsmirnoff Thu 27-Feb-14 19:16:44

Have they got the same surname ?

The benefits will not get paid directly to the landlord. The land lord has to prove there are outstanding rent arrears and tenent are not capable of managing money before that may happen. Speaking from bitter experience. I've had a tenent trot off with two months rent. I've also had a tenent that used the house to grow weed in and never even lived there and benefits paid the rent till we found out.

Sadly, in today's society there are people that see life as an easy ride. Luckily not all people are like this.

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis Thu 27-Feb-14 19:21:01

Regulation 9(1)(l) states the general principle which relates to a determination that a person is to be treated as not liable for his housing costs. This is that HB is not payable where the LA is satisfied that the liability was created to take advantage of the HB scheme. You should note that such an abuse can be on the part of the claimant, the landlord, or both acting together. This provision should be used only where none of the preceding paragraphs apply.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 19:35:32

I don't see the issue here.
Surely it is better for this vulnerable young woman to be renting from a landlord who wants to make sure she is ok?

That way she is not taking a HA or council house or having to deal with the precarious private rented sector.

HB is not going to pay the mortgage unless it is a very cheap house.

And IF it does isn't that what renting out is for? People don't tend to do it for charitable purposes.

If the relative wasn't renting it to her to pay the mortgage he would be renting it to someone else to pay it surely?

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 19:38:17

Relative is buying the house specifically for this purpose.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 19:39:41

Relative buying house is her sister but has different name as she is married - HB won't even know they are related I wouldn't think.

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 19:48:11

I am assuming they can't buy a house and just let her live in it for free so what are they supposed to do?
She is going to have to claim HB if she rents from another private landlord.
Who has bought the house for the specific purpose of renting it out to make money.

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