To be bloody annoyed at family for facilitating this

(102 Posts)
Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:25:26

Disclaimer - not a benefits bash thread, only referring to THIS particular case!!
A family member is 20 and has never worked. She has very mild SN but is mainly very lazy and spoilt. She has a baby at 16 and stayed at her mums, who does everything for this child while the mum buys crap with her child benefit. When she was told that after September when her child starts school she would have to go onto JSA and start looking for work she has now deliberately got pg - not speculating here she freely admits it.
Her mum has decided she doesn't want her and 2 children living there so has told her she has to move out. Another family member has bought a small house for her to rent. Rent will be paid by housing benefit. Apparently family member gets somewhere to live for free and other family member will end up owning a house where her mortgage is covered by benefits!!
I appreciate this doesn't really affect me but I am avoiding these people now as when asked what I think I will have to tell them and here will be falling out ( which may be a good thing??)

CailinDana Thu 27-Feb-14 16:28:13

Why will you be asked what you think?

scarletforya Thu 27-Feb-14 16:28:33

Meh.

PrincessOfChina Thu 27-Feb-14 16:29:58

I didn't think Housing Benefit could be paid when the accomodation belonged to a relative?

Ra88 Thu 27-Feb-14 16:32:52

What princess said ! Fraud ..

Imnotmadeofeyes Thu 27-Feb-14 16:34:31

Do you really think that this situation will last out the term of the mortgage? This will end in tears imho.

Yes it's galling to actually witness someone misuse the system for financial gain, but I don't think benefit wise they're strictly speaking doing anything illegal.

The potential for so many different dramas between your family members is huge - housing benefit ending/being cut, maintenance, one of the parties wanting to end the contract and the bad feeling one will feel losing out etc.

I suppose you have to rely on karma a bit here.

WorraLiberty Thu 27-Feb-14 16:34:59

Why would they want to know your thoughts on this anyway?

Imnotmadeofeyes Thu 27-Feb-14 16:37:23

I'm pretty sure you can have proper rent agreements with family members. If you were living with them it would be different, but signing up a proper contract to take primary residence in a property is different.

I'd have my suspicions that all the proper regulations with deposits and insurance were being followed but that's a different subject.

Fontofnowt Thu 27-Feb-14 16:40:07

Contrived tenancy it's called.
How kind of them to buy her a house but sadly benefits aren't paid like this.

NatashaBee Thu 27-Feb-14 16:43:38

It probably won't be as simple as they think to claim housing benefit for the family member's house. I believe you have to have owned the rental property for a time already and prove that you have rented it out before at the same rate (to prevent people doing exactly what your family member has done).

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:44:09

Well the reason I will be asked is that first of all I will be expected to congratulate this person on her pregnancy when I see her and if I don't I will be accused of being mean.
Secondly certain family members have already said how wonderful it all is and from past experience when they so the same to me I will be biting my lip!!!
I did look up contrived tenancy and apparently while the HB people will look at this closely it IS possible

JuliaScurr Thu 27-Feb-14 16:44:16

yep, I think rellies can't get rent in HB

NatashaBee Thu 27-Feb-14 16:44:17

Contrived tenancy, that's the term I was trying to think of Fontofnowt

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 16:44:38

All I can see is somebody making use of the welfare system. Yes it is annoying that she has done this but with learning difficulties, a young child and no work experience at all she has fuck all chance of getting a job.
She is going to be living in a private rental so not taking social housing from anybody else and I am assuming the rent will be set at a fairly low rate in order that it is covered by Housing Benefit.

Not something I would condone but in the grand scheme this is hardly a major hustle.

To be honest I feel sorry for someone like her. She has a dog's chance really.

Maybe being in her own place will give her the independence she needs in order to take responsibility and give her some ambition. She is still young.

Bear in mind that LDs do not just mean that you have trouble with academics. They can lead to delays in emotional maturity.

Fontofnowt Thu 27-Feb-14 16:47:07

You looked it up OP?
Maybe channel this enthusiasm about her options into helping her with her kid and set a better example?

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:48:47

Mrs D, this person was given every chance believe me.
Her main issue is the fact that she can't be arsed getting out of bed.
Anyone bright enough to figure out how to play the system like this should be able to look after themselves and their child ( who, by the way I really fear for when she no longer lives with her Grandma who actually looks after her)
Should say if I do actually suspect neglect then I will get involved - child is lovely and deserves much better

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:52:39

Why would she need my help Font?

Fontofnowt Thu 27-Feb-14 16:54:43

Maybe because she has LD is 20 with 1 and a bit kids and is stuck in a place where she thinks her only route to life is having a new baby?

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 16:59:39

Nothing I can do about any of that ( have tried but she only got pg first time because I did and I " got lots of attention")
She has got people who support her, help her and actually buy her houses and who don't have extreme difficulty in not shouting " grow the fuck up you spoilt brat and think about your daughter" whenever I see her!!
I'm best of keeping out of the way. I'm still outraged that the system allows this, to be honest I'm probably more annoyed at that any one individual.

littlemisssarcastic Thu 27-Feb-14 17:01:40

I feel sorry for this young girl and her DC if what you say is true OP.

plantsitter Thu 27-Feb-14 17:06:11

So what's best then OP? The grandmother continues to spend her life looking after effectively three kids? Or she throws them out with no support whatsoever?

Or that a clearly vulnerable for whatever reason woman gets help to establish herself and learn how to run her own home and family?

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 17:07:03

I doubt you would if you had all the facts but unfortunately I can't give them on a public forum.
Save your sympathy for the child and the future one as well, they DO deserve it and if they ever need anything I will be there like a shot .

MrsDeVere Thu 27-Feb-14 17:09:23

Hopping do you have any experiences of learning disabilities?
When you say she has been given every chance do you mean she has been offered paid employment and turned it down?

You sound jealous.

What mrs de vere said

Who can be fucked being jealous of a 20 year old with 2 kids, no job, and a house she will never own.

How fucking shit does my life have to be to be jealous of that.

Hoppinggreen Thu 27-Feb-14 17:18:42

She has been fired numerous times for not turning up for work and refused to go for interviews when people have tried to help. She also dropped out of several college courses or was thrown put for not turning up because she didn't want to get up,
There have also been numerous other incidents of people paying off debts for her and other things that I can't really go into.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned the SN, she has never been diagnosed or treated and werent picked up on at school but her mum says she can't help the selfishness and other quite terrible behaviour as she has SN and this is the line the rest if the family takes. Apparently she can do whatever she wants because of her " difficulties"
As for jealous? I certainly don't want any part of her life at all but I suppose I may be a bit jealous of someone who has never worked and seems to have a lifestyle better than the one I have worked really hard for.
This whole thread has now turned into me defending how I feel now and I appreciate people who don't know the whole picture might think I'm mean or even " jealous" but anyone who does know that this is just the latest in a long line of the family enduring that this girl will never be able to look after herself and her children because they facilitate her behaviour.

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