To think this is so unfair (work related)

[waxinganowl]

I work as a Manager in the credit function of a bank. As part of my job I occasionally have to travel abroad with Client Managers to check out new clients and understand how potential new businesses operate. In the last year I have accompanied one particular Client Manager twice to a Istanbul. Last month I was due to travel there again to inspect a factory we are intending to lend to, but at the last minute my trip was cancelled and I was told that due to budget constraints only the Client Manager could go. I didn't think that much more about it until today when I had lunch with a good friend who is also quite senior within the bank. He told me that the CEO had personally vetoed my trip because he doubted the necessity of me going and questioned the motives of the (male) client manager in wanting me to be there! I asked specifically what he meant by that and he said the CEO assumed the Client Manager's motives were perhaps untoward!! My friend apparently pointed out that I am happily married with a 2 year old daughter and in the unlikely event, any improper advances occurred they would be strongly pushed away. Despite this the CEO said that whilst he believed in my integrity he questioned that of the Client Manager and so I could not be allowed to travel with him. I am frankly outraged at all this. I have a strictly professional relationship with all my colleagues and have never even considered this as an issue. Secondly, I feel that it is me that is ultimately being punished for speculation about something another person may or may not have intended. I was told all this in strict confidence so not sure what if anything I can do about it. AIBU to think this is effectively discrimination?

[45redballoons]

I'm not sure what you can do about it either, if you were to question them then they could probably come up with a legit reason as to why you were not needed.

I agree very unfair and unfounded. Probably not nice for the client manager to be accussed of that either I imagine.

[scurryfunge]

Are you sure there is no ongoing investigation regarding this person and they are safeguarding colleagues until it is resolved?

[Reduction]

Is it usual for credit managers to go on these trips? I wasn't when I worked in commercial banking, client managers only visited clients. The credit function was supposed to be one step removed to maintain objectivity.

If it is usual for you to go on these trips in your organisation then yes it is unfair and very odd behaviour from the ceo

[ImAlpharius]

Did someone else go in your place or did the client manager go alone?

[waxinganowl]

He ended up going alone. It is usual practise here for credit to go for complex new clients. Next week my male colleague will be accompanying the same client manager on another trip

[wobblyweebles]

Next week my male colleague will be accompanying the same client manager on another trip

I would ask why the trips are being cancelled due to 'budget constraints' for some staff but not others...

[burchell]

This is entirely unfair and, if the CEO's reported comments / motivations are accurate, is clearly unlawful direct sex discrimination.

So YANBU.

But what are you going to do? It sounds like a small company if the CEO is getting involved in who goes on what trips, and raising a grievance about the comments is not going to win you any friends. Neither would bringing a claim - and any award would be small.

You have a 3 month time limit to bring a claim (although if this turns out to be part of a series of discriminatory actions, the limit runs from the last of those acts).

Practically, I think all you can do is:

(1) Keep a contemporaneous record of the CEO's comments (i.e. write down who told you what he said, and when that person told you). And also of e.g. this other credit manager travelling on a trip, and any other "cancelled" trips.

(2) Consider whether there is any way to raise the issue in a low-key way, e.g. with a trusted senior manager ("I have heard that I wasn't able to go on the Istanbul trip because of some concerns about me travelling with X client manager. I don't know if that's right, but I just wanted to let you know that I have had no issues in working together with X and I wouldn't want to think I'm missing out on the opportunity to visit clients and get to understand their businesses better because of a misconception.")

[burchell]

This is entirely unfair and, if the CEO's reported comments / motivations are accurate, is clearly unlawful direct sex discrimination.

So YANBU.

But what are you going to do? It sounds like a small company if the CEO is getting involved in who goes on what trips, and raising a grievance about the comments is not going to win you any friends. Neither would bringing a claim - and any award would be small.

You have a 3 month time limit to bring a claim (although if this turns out to be part of a series of discriminatory actions, the limit runs from the last of those acts).

Practically, I think all you can do is:

(1) Keep a contemporaneous record of the CEO's comments (i.e. write down who told you what he said, and when that person told you). And also of e.g. this other credit manager travelling on a trip, and any other "cancelled" trips.

(2) Consider whether there is any way to raise the issue in a low-key way, e.g. with a trusted senior manager ("I have heard that I wasn't able to go on the Istanbul trip because of some concerns about me travelling with X client manager. I don't know if that's right, but I just wanted to let you know that I have had no issues in working together with X and I wouldn't want to think I'm missing out on the opportunity to visit clients and get to understand their businesses better because of a misconception.")

[burchell]

Oops didn't mean to post twice!

[WeAllHaveWings]

Honestly believe your good friend, for your sake, should have thought this through and not have told you this "in confidence". What are you meant to do with this information if you can't reveal it? Your good friend sounds like a bit of an office gossip, i hate this in senior managers, I would worry what they were revealing about my conversations to others!

I think you should do as wobbly says, and your good friend with their inside information could have coached you to ask these questions.

[Reduction]

Different trip wobbly, it's entirely legitimate to agree to send credit to see one client but not another, it's not like they sent someone else in Op's place and presumably the client manager did get what needed doing done which kind of proves that Op's presence wasn't entirely necessary. Was it a trip you needed to go on OP?

TBH it seems so unlikely to me that CEO would take any interest in the personal lives of his staff that I think the most likely explanation is that friend is stirring.

And yes, it is outrageously unprofessional for him to have shared it with you - maybe the CEO is aware he has a leak and is testing your friend?!

[WooWooOwl]

It's unfairly at you are missing opportunities because of someone else's possible intentions, but presumably your company don't owe you trips to Istanbul.

If you bring it up then you are likely to be told that the CEO questioned the necessity of you going on the trip, just as your friend told you. That's a valid reason for you not to go, and unless there were problems on the trip or with the contract afterwards because you weren't there, then the CEO might have had a point.

[KatieScarlett2833]

Someone I know manages someone who has had numerous complaints made against them of a perve flavour and is only still employed due to lack of evidence.
No way would they authorise the perve to be in any enforced contact with a member of the opposite sex. And they can't talk about it to those that could be at risk, so I see the POV of big boss somewhat.

[Viviennemary]

I'm surprised somebody told you that the CEO had personally vetoed the trip. If the person who told you is in a senior position they aren't very trustworthy. And business trips aren't a jolly or a reward. A lot of companies are cutting down on the number of people they send abroad.

[Gryffindor]

I wouldn't expect the Credit function to attend these meetings tbh. The whole point is that Credit is one of the independent functions that can make objective decisions without being blinded by the client's glitz.

In my Bank there is a massive clamp down on air travel, each flight has to be approved by the CEO. Only a senior client manager would be going.

[ImperialBlether]

But it doesn't matter what happens in other organisations, does it? The OP has been taken off a trip because the other person isn't to be trusted. A male colleague is going on the same trip next week.

[PlasmaBall]

No, a male colleague is going on a different trip next week. "Next week my male colleague will be accompanying the same client manager on another trip"

[waxinganowl]

Thank you all for your replies. To give you some context, there are 125 people in the organisation and I am 2 reporting lines down from the CEO. He approves all business trips overseas. It is correct that an overseas trip isn't a given right and is something that gets cut back. I totally accept that, which is why I had no issue when I originally found out that I wasn't going. Personally I don't think two long days inspecting an aluminium plant in the middle of nowhere is much of a perk!

It has become fairly standard here for someone outside of the marketing function to accompany the designated Client Manager for new, complex deals in order to get the 'real story' behind the transaction and undertake all the due diligence. Each trip I have been on has been to see a different client and I would say that on one of those occasions I stopped a deal going through as a result. The other trips were arguably non eventful with hindsight. My annoyance is purely based on the fact that because of speculation about the motives of someone else (which as an aside I believe to be completely unfounded and out of character), it is me that gets cut out and no one else. I am the only senior female in the department and it grates.

This has all left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I am supposed to be having lunch with the Client Manager on Monday (I regularly have lunch with male colleagues so nothing unusual) and now feel paranoid I'll be gossiped about if I do. I have thought about telling him myself, but given it's secondhand information, I feel this could massively backfire. Maybe, I'll just have to suck it up on this occasion, but make a note of everything in case I need to refer to it in the future. Sorry for the long post.

[PlasmaBall]

If you really think the events being speculated about would be out of character for the client manager, I do think you need to have a serious think about the "friend" who told you this story in the first place.

Have any other trips been cancelled due to cost considerations? Do you travel more/less than most others in your role? I know in my organisation there are those who get a bit of a rep for enjoying life on the company and others who manage to get through a month claiming hardly any expenses even though they do much the same job.

[ImperialBlether]

I should have said "a male colleague is going on a similar trip with the same man next week."

[waxinganowl]

Plasma - I probably travel less than most of my Colleagues, as I am very reluctant to leave my daughter unless I absolutely have to. Agree about some people taking the piss but I am definitely not one of them!

I have worked there for 10 years and have been good friend with 'the informant' for at least 5 of them. He has not made something up that I know about previously, which is why I believed him. He couldn't understand why I was annoyed as he thinks it is just the Client Manager's reputation being disputed, but I think that's not really the point.