Posting here for traffic. Travelling from Israel into Jericho...any advice?

(100 Posts)
minouminou Tue 21-Jan-14 18:43:50

Visiting Israel next week, with DS, who's seven. Both on UK passports, and we're hoping to fit in a day trip to Jericho, which is in the Palestinian Territories. I know we'll be alright as Brits and tourists, but I'm wondering if anyone's had any hassle getting out of Ben Gurion airport on the way home...do you get a stamp in your passport upon entering Palestine? Etc etc...

Thanks a lot!

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 00:55:28

Of course I am

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 00:57:38

20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian citizens. So clearly other races are allowed to lvie there.

What do you think the Palestinains would have done to the Jewish population of Israel if they'd have won in 1947-8? Do you think they'd have sat down and sung kumbaya with them?

The creation of the State of Israel was a tragedy for the Palestinians, no doubt. But if the Arabs would have won, the tragedy would have been on the other foot. By 1947/8 it was too late for compromise.

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 00:59:40

They have no choice! The state of Israel has taken away their homeland.

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 01:03:22

You think middle East is like Europe, there weren't pogroms in Jordan or Yemen. Iran still has its Jewish population.

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 01:07:38

Shakshuka if you want to continue talking you can PM me I am off to sleep.

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:12:34

There were pogroms in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Morocco and Algeria!!!

Jews were EXPELLED from Iraq and lost all their property.

Iran is very different, it's not an Arab country and has a completely different society.

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 01:19:17

After 1948, Jews left Europe during the Spanish inquisition to seek sanctuary in the Muslim world.

The change was a direct result of the 1948 war, prior Muslims, Jews and Christians lived far more harmoniously than in Europe.

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 01:22:27

You know whats happening to the Palestinians is evil, your excuse is it would be worse if they had won the war.

When apartheid ended people thought white people would be massacred 20 years on things are much better.

When slavery ended they thought freed slaves would try to enact revenge.

Let's try and loom for a solution for everyone.

TheXxed Wed 22-Jan-14 01:23:06

Like I said PM me.

Chippingnortonset123 Wed 22-Jan-14 01:26:28

The 20 percent who live in Israel are treated as sub citizens, see apartheid. As for the rest of them...

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:27:48

No, you're right that there wasn't genocide in the Arab world. So that's OK then. hmm although you can google the 'farhud' to see that there was shit going on before 1948. And expelling Jews from Iraq because of the creation of the State of Israel (what has Iraq got to do with Israel exactly?) seems slightly racist.

Anyway, I didn't intend to get into a political argument, just responding to the attacks that inevitably result if someone doesn't agree that Israel is the big satan responsible for all the woes of the world. Generally life is a bit more complicated than that.

Chippingnortonset123 Wed 22-Jan-14 01:28:52

I know!
A two State solution!
Now why did no one ever think of THAT before?

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:31:23

Chipping

That's blatantly untrue and you have clearly been swallowing the Palestinian propaganda hook, line and sinker.

There are Arab members of the knesset, there are Arabs working in the civil service in senior positions, there are senior Arab doctors, there are senior Arab professors.

Israeli Arabs have full civil and legal rights.

There is NO apartheid in Israel. What a ridiculous thing to say. The situation in the Palestinian territories is bad but that is completely different to saying there is apartheid in Israel.

Not true and total slander.

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:34:59

Exactly - a two state solution.

Which was first proposed in 1937 and most roundly rejected by the Arabs!!

And then the UN partition plan. Again, rejected by the Arabs.

Because they thought they'd win the war so why compromise?

Sometimes when you gamble like that, you get it wrong.

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:39:25

Sorry OP. i didn't mean to hijack your thread, it wasn't my intention. It seems to have descended into the usual Israel bashing but I guess that's inevitable.

Apologies!!!!

Chippingnortonset123 Wed 22-Jan-14 01:40:14

I know and have worked with Israeli-Palestinians.
I have seen the Israeli settlements grow in the occupied territories over the last twenty five years.
I have lived with the Palestinians who have lived in camps for 66 years.

Chippingnortonset123 Wed 22-Jan-14 01:43:48

And living in a cement dwelling, the size of a caravan and no where near as comfortable, with little to eat, restricted movement, little employment, living in constant fear with no help for ongoing mental health problems

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:52:35

I also know and have worked with Israeli Palestinians.

In fact, my boss in the Israeli civil service was an Israeli Arab.

And my professor at uni was an Israeli Arab.

And the ob-gyn who sewed me up after I gave birth was an Israeli Arab.

That's not apartheid or you have a very warped idea of what apartheid is.

You clearly hate Israel so much that you can't accept anything positive about it.

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 01:54:07

BTW, not all Israeli Arabs want to be called Israeli Palestinians. Many actually are really terrified by the association, especially Christians and Druze.

SamG76 Wed 22-Jan-14 13:51:59

also BTW, as part of the peace negotiations, it has been suggested that some Israeli Arab towns near the Green Line could be transferred to the state of Palestine. Given how badly the Israeli Arabs are apparently being treated in Israel, you would think they would jump at the chance to join their Palestinian brethren in the wonderful new state. But guess what? there seems to be near universal rejection of the idea. Very odd...

Chippingnortonset123 Wed 22-Jan-14 15:40:03

Because living under occupation is worse than living under apartheid?

Shakshuka Wed 22-Jan-14 16:35:24

Chipping

Please do elaborate on the supposed apartheid that Arab Israeli citizens live under. I'm really interested since I have never seen it and there is no legal framework which suggests it exists. Arabs in Israel can and do live where they want, work where they want, vote for whoever the want, go to university where they want. You're actually cheapening apartheid and the suffering of the south africans by saying that Arab Israeli citizens live under apartheid. You're simply wrong.

What you're saying is a propaganda fantasy because you can't bring yourself to admit that Arab Israeli citizens prefer the liberal democracy and social welfare system that they benefit from as Israeli citizens (yes, there is racism and discrimination but that is very different to a legal system of apartheid) rather than the chaos and corruption of the Palestinian Authority as you're blinded by hatred for Israel.

SamG76 Wed 22-Jan-14 18:27:36

Thanks, Shakshuka -

Chipping - as part of the peace deal they wouldn't be occupied any more - that's the point of it. They're choosing Israel in preference to a completely independent Palestine, and who could blame them?

Iwannalaylikethisforever Wed 22-Jan-14 18:42:12

I've done this trip via Bethlehem, Israeli taxi driver stopped at Palestian and I changed taxi, for me no big deal, I was however not traveling with children, and looking back would not either. Impo guns are carried for a reason, wouldn't take my kids id be scared. There are loads of beautiful places in Israel anyway.

minouminou Thu 06-Feb-14 15:02:02

Just letting everyone know that we didn't go to Jericho in the end. We spent a day in Old Jaffa, as well as a day in Jerusalem and Apollonia. Had a great time and hope to return soon, although not in the summer.

Decided not to brave Jericho because it involved going into the PA and back out again - just didn't feel it was right to do this with a seven-year-old.

Thanks again everyone.

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