To think that if we are not going to pay benefits to foreigners because they haven't contributed

(85 Posts)
IceBeing Sun 12-Jan-14 13:41:34

then we should also not pay benefits to people born in the UK that haven't contributed?

Like my grandmother...she's never paid any tax (married early when married women weren't expected to work). Or my cousins who have not been able to find work since leaving school. Or many of the locals around here who have not had work in their family for three generations now. Or my friend's brother with Downs Syndrome who has never worked.

Alternatively..and this might be crazy....maybe the point of benefits is to support people who can't support themselves, whatever the reason, irrespective of whether or not they have been able to in the past and also irrespective of where they or they parents happen to have been born.

DameDeepRedBetty Sun 12-Jan-14 13:44:26

But none of the list of people you've given have made a choice about whether or not to leave the country of their birth and move to another.

OTheHugeManatee Sun 12-Jan-14 13:52:12

Fuck it, let's just set up direct debits to everyone in te entire world, regardless of where they live or who they are.

Or maybe we can accept that lines have to be drawn somewhere and try to make sensible decisions about where those lines are.

It seems reasonable to me that children who don't live in the UK are not eligible for UK child benefit.

IceBeing Sun 12-Jan-14 13:54:56

Othehuge

so it would be BETTER if the kids moved here and we paid for their education too?

<confused>

Joules68 Sun 12-Jan-14 13:58:01

what kids? from where?

and of course,the big question,who is paying for all this?

fifi669 Sun 12-Jan-14 13:59:56

It's not unreasonable to expect people who have contributed nothing to receive nothing. In the case of your gran, to say now, after her working years are over, that the rules are changing and she will get nothing would be wrong. To say to anyone incapable of working due to disability that they'll receive nothing is wrong. However to say to people with no intention of working they'll get diddly squat sounds right to me.

People who move here to claim benefits should be refused. People who move here to work should be accommodated.

SuzanneUK Sun 12-Jan-14 14:07:56

Many foreigners are nice, decent people and I'd rather see them getting state benefits than a chav family with a zillion chavvy kids each of which will, in due course, produce another chav family with a zillion chavvy kids each of which will, in due course, produce another chav family with a zillion chavvy kids each of which will, in due course, produce another . . . etc, etc.

Basically, we should pay less attention to foreigners' benefits and much more attention to cutting - nay, slashing - benefits to British chavs.

MrsMoon76 Sun 12-Jan-14 14:10:44

I am not from the uk but do now live here. I have never claimed benefits and I do believe that anyone coming here should not be allowed to just claim. They should have work lined up or a way of supporting themselves until they get work. I have faced unemployment in my time and if there is no work in an area then I secured a job elsewhere and moved.

The examples of a lady that has never worked outside the home - I assume her husband worked and paid tax whilst she raise a family? Why wouldn't she get a pension? A young man with a disability? Why wouldn't he also get help?

But 3 generations of a family that has never worked? That becomes part of the family/local culture and is of no benefit to their own well being, confidence and health and they need help to get out of that situation. I do feel that there needs to be help for those that need break away from a cycle like that - I see this where I work and there are a couple of great groups that help teach work skills to give people the confidence to start to work for the first time.

As a family growing up we moved to the uk in the 80's - there was a deep recession in Ireland. My dad went first, stayed with a brother, got work, saved a house deposit and then we all followed, my mum got p/t work and we went to school. No benefits required and we children finished school, worked, paid tax etc.

TheRealAmandaClarke Sun 12-Jan-14 14:10:49

What is a Chav?

Theodorous Sun 12-Jan-14 14:14:56

This is not going to end well. I do kind of agree that the system is open to abuse but I don't agree with bashing foreigners. My father isn't English, paid hundreds of thousands in tax and now gets no help at all because of his assets as in owns a house. My in laws never really worked and now live in a lovely sheltered home, free bills and also get almost a grand a month in benefits because their daughter works as a benefits advisor and gets them every payment possible. It is wrong but it has been since the model became unsustainable, a few generations after the dream was put in place. I don't blame thatcher either.

foreverondiet Sun 12-Jan-14 14:15:41

biscuit

1. grandmother - I assume her husband worked to support and children
2. child with downs syndrome - I assume the parents work and pay tax
3. cousins looking for job - will pay tax in future

But people coming here just to claim benefits and not to work?
Or paying benefits to children who aren't living in the UK?

Frusso Sun 12-Jan-14 14:16:19

But everyone living in this country pays tax of some sort. You buy food you pay tax, you buy clothes you pay tax, petrol, toilet roll, energy bills. There's almost always vat added on top.

Elfhame Sun 12-Jan-14 14:16:41

www.jrf.org.uk/publications/cultures-of-worklessness

The joseph rowntree foundation did a study into the claims about 3 generations that have never worked and found that:

Despite strenuous efforts, the researchers were unable to locate any such families. Even two generations of complete worklessness in the same family was a very rare phenomenon, which is consistent with recent quantitative surveys of this issue.

Elfhame Sun 12-Jan-14 14:19:37

And I believe it is bollocks that foreigners are flooding over to claim benefits. All the immigrants I have ever known have come over here to work.

BraveMerida Sun 12-Jan-14 14:21:24

Yabu, this country absolutely should prioritise the needs of its own citizens, it is not about contributing or not....giving free tax payers money to all and sundry is just unreasonable and inviting abuse of the system...the more non-citizens take the money, the less there is to go to the truly needy uk citizens.

Poppy67 Sun 12-Jan-14 14:22:53

Something has to be done about immigration. The demand on school places is ridiculous and unsustainable. This will affect housing, jobs etc. my kids school are having to build new classrooms which is taking space from playing areas and rooms which were used for clubs etc. my kids are missing out because our country has an appalling open door system and customs/borders are next to nothing. Thus country is quickly going down hill.

foreverondiet Sun 12-Jan-14 14:23:25

Elfhame - my Polish cleaner told me she had many friends coming to UK just to claim benefits. Even some claiming housing benefits and then subletting rooms/beds (!) for cash. Just because everyone you know works doesn't mean that people don't take advantage.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 12-Jan-14 14:24:47

"My father isn't English, paid hundreds of thousands in tax and now gets no help at all because of his assets as in owns a house"

That has nothing to do with being English or not, anyone with assets such as; a house are taken into consideration when a person asks for help from the state.

Dawndonnaagain Sun 12-Jan-14 14:25:49

FFS.
Suzanne Your post is out of order.

Foreverondiet An anecdote from your cleaner does not evidence make.

hmm

Whiskwarrior Sun 12-Jan-14 14:26:17

Ahahahahahahahaha!

My Polish cleaner told me. Therefore it's all true.

I claim my prize now.

BraveMerida Sun 12-Jan-14 14:27:27

Just to reiterate yabvu.

Dawndonnaagain Sun 12-Jan-14 14:29:27

Brave
In what way does this country not put the needs of its own citizens to the fore?

SuzanneUK Sun 12-Jan-14 14:30:53

"What is a Chav?" asks The RealAmandaClarke

A chav is essentially a member of the lowest social class.

I'm not talking about the traditional British working class that has been the backbone of this country since time immemorial.

I'm talking about the lowest echelons of that class - people with no 'class' at all. They probably have kids called 'Tyler' and/or 'Chardonnay' and/or something equally vomit-producing.

IceBeing Sun 12-Jan-14 14:33:33

fifi you didn't say what you thought of my cousins....they studied hard left school with cast iron intention of working and have not found work. Do they deserve a roof over their head, food etc.?

BraveMerida Sun 12-Jan-14 14:34:57

By treating everyone regardless or whether British citizen or eu citizen equally for purpose of claiming benefits. The thinner tax payers money is spread, the less there is to go to its own citizens, same principal applies for public services. Most countries have controlled, immigrants have to meet criteria to enter and stay, based on e.g. Skills shortages.

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