Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

andrew mitchel

(38 Posts)
poii10 Sat 11-Jan-14 23:34:49

AIBU to think the people who asked for Mitchels nuts on skewer will send their apologies in, in the wake of the lying bastard copper.

AngelaDaviesHair Tue 14-Jan-14 10:17:35

What some who view this issue less as a political football may be surprised by, is how outraged the Tories are by this incident of police malpractice while remaining stoically silent on other recent examples

Oh yes.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 12-Jan-14 20:49:15

Instead of looking at the words used, IMO the biggest issue is that he believed that he should have been able to go through the main gate and got shirty about it.

CHJR Sun 12-Jan-14 19:02:35

OK but we all understand, surely, that the word "pleb" was particularly explosive, more so than general rudeness and "fuck," because it fed into that whole "the Tories are the party of the rich and entitled" thing. If Mitchell had just been accused of being rude he probably wouldn't have lost his position. I wonder indeed if the police who apparently invented this word realised that or if they too got caught off guard by its becoming bigger than they'd meant. Because I worked a long time ago in a job that made me very aware the police often lie in what they see as small details -- usually in situations where they know (or "know") a crime has been committed but fear there will be no conviction unless they exaggerate/invent a bit in order to convict someone they feel is truly guilty. Needless to say the know vs "know" is WHY they should not invent and embroider. But what I want to know is --

Do you think Mitchell should have been as badly punished for saying "fuck" as for saying "pleb"? Should he have been? And would he have been?

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 12-Jan-14 18:56:14

sash

"if you are an asshole you should lose your job"

especially if you are in a job that tries to accredit itself with high moral.

KittensoftPuppydog Sun 12-Jan-14 17:01:39

He said at the time that he didnt use the words 'ascribed to him' or some other slippery term.

KittensoftPuppydog Sun 12-Jan-14 17:00:04

At the time he did not actually deny using the word 'pleb'.
It's only since he's realised that there are no proper witnesses that he is denying it.

Bowlersarm Sun 12-Jan-14 16:16:58

Agree sashh. I expect the police heard the word 'fucking' twice and had to be revived with smelling salts. It is so unusual, after all.

sashh Sun 12-Jan-14 15:45:21

Andrew Mitchell was the first to be aggressive, saying "fucking" twice. Had he behaved as a professional person should do, this wouldn't have happened.

Yes if you are an asshole you should lose your job and have the police make up and publish lies about you.confused

ChairOfTheBored Sun 12-Jan-14 14:52:04

The fact is he was rude and refused to comply with a reasonable request froma police officer who was employed to safeguard Andrew Mitchell, and other cabinet members, safety potentially at the risk of his own life. This makes him very unreasonable, whatever the precise wording of his complaint, and to the best of my knowledge he didn't deny using the work fuck, just pleb.

The actions of the Police is a separate matter, and I do believe they behaved appallingly, and it is appropriate that charges have been brought. What some who view this issue less as a political football may be surprised by, is how outraged the Tories are by this incident of police malpractice while remaining stoically silent on other recent examples.

hackmum Sun 12-Jan-14 14:25:34

I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that the police don't tell lies. Of course there is historically plenty of evidence to the contrary, but some people tend to look at cases like the Birmingham Six and assume they were a bunch of lowlife, and if they weren't guilty of planting bombs they were probably guilty of something else.

So if any good comes of the Mitchell case it will be a widespread realisation that the police do systematically plot to tell lies about people. One honourable exception to the initial condemnation of Mitchell was Chris Mullin, who said he was dubious about the story. Good for him.

Bowlersarm Sun 12-Jan-14 14:19:42

YANBU

No one has come out of that episode looking good.

Poppy67 Sun 12-Jan-14 14:13:53

Andrew Mitchell was the first to be aggressive, saying "fucking" twice. Had he behaved as a professional person should do, this wouldn't have happened.

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 09:43:45

'Everyone' was so ready to coruscate the him and the Tories.

They were wrong.

Maintaining the 'nasty' narrative is very important to a weak opposition too. Making the Tories unfashionable is the only hope for the policy free party.

This is a good example of the depths to which manipulators will sink.

And it shows how people believe what they want to believe, and don't let go of such desires, even when the basis for them is shown so wrong and has led to a guilty plea by a key perpetrator.

Hoppinggreen Sun 12-Jan-14 09:42:01

So is it only unacceptable when police fabricate evidence against nice people?
He should have been judged on what happened and punished for that - if it was so bad why the need to make things up and lie about it?

He may not have said that.
He's still Tory scum.

PrimroseLodge Sun 12-Jan-14 09:01:04

The idiot policeman who wasn't there told a lie.

The officers who were actually there and recorded the altercation did not. They were investigated at considerable length and their evidence could not be disproved.

Poppy67 Sun 12-Jan-14 09:00:18

Andrew Mitchell is has been involved in allegations of tax avoidance schemes, lobbying on behalf of donors and dodgy expenses. Let's start asking why the MPs are more morally correct, ethically correct, and honest. They are running the country (ha bloody ha) and are doing things for themselves, not for themselves.

This man is not some holier than thou character and should not have been a dick in the first place.

maillotjaune Sun 12-Jan-14 08:47:20

I spoke to someone who works in news media and she said everyone believed it because of what they already knew of AM. Perhaps he should be reflecting on how he treats people, generally.

The police officer was an idiot to lie but I'm more concerned about the Duggan case than Plebgate tbh.

Enb76 Spain Sun 12-Jan-14 08:25:01

Strangely enough it didn't ring true for me at the time. Yes, I could imagine him swearing and being a total cunt but his educational background would have meant that if he used the word 'pleb' it would have been unlikely to be in anger. Pleb was always used as a jocular joshing sort of term, never in anger.

Poppy67 Sun 12-Jan-14 08:23:16

Why did Mitchell think he wuss above using the correct gate? If he had followed the rules set by his boss, Cameron, this wouldn't have happened. I am sure the government have it in for the police and I think they are destroying it rather quickly. I still support the police and believe most of them do a bloody good job in tough circumstances.

roweeena Sun 12-Jan-14 08:19:18

Personally I think it is absolutely disgraceful that a member of the cabinet swore at policeman. I don't care if he used the word pleb or not he still showed a level disrespect that should not be shown to someone who is actually there to protect him.

There's no smoke without fire.

minibmw2010 Sun 12-Jan-14 08:17:59

What annoys me is that even if Plebgate did happen (and I haven't decided either way), no-one will believe it because of that idiot PC.

Hoppinggreen Sun 12-Jan-14 08:16:05

The lengths that the officers went to to stitch him up were incredible.
The officer who has just been convicted wrote to him MP to say he witnessed the event when he didn't!!! Incredible
Also, Mitchell agreed to a confidential meeting with those involved and was ambushed and then events at the meeting were lied about too. Luckily he had recorded it.
It's all so unbelievable that I thought Mitchell must have done what he was accused of. I'm afraid it really damaged my faith in the police.

Xposts with cupofcake! Exactly what she said!

Didn't he admit to telling the to fuck off or something anyway? And really, because the wouldn't open the big gates so he could cycle through them when there was a perfectly good pedestrian gate he could use?

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now