To not want to fill in a stupid f*****g diary in regards to NDNs anti-social behaviour?(20 Posts)
Me again; I had a post up a week or 2 ago about my NDNs anti-social behaviour, all the calls to the police I've had to make etc. I can put a link to the thread if needed.
Just a bit of an update really to ask those who I spoke to last time (who were SUPER helpful) whether things look like they're going in the right direction or whether I'm just being fobbed off, especially as one poster seemed to know a lot about what happens in this situation due to going through it with her friend.
I had our Housing Association area manager/ housing officer round yesterday and the outcome of our
way too short "discussion" was that he was going to the police to validate my claims and that I have to fill in a diary every time noise/ disturbances occur.
I'm annoyed as; firstly I've been asked to start from Christmas Eve (as that's the most recent serious incident whereby the police have been called out etc) but there has been a lot prior to that. Secondly the diary only has 7 forms in it and we have had disturbances I feel are sufficient enough to report every day since then... you do the maths!! Thirdly the next "strategic steps" are for me to do this diary and if the problem persists, he will write to NDN and "ask her to limit her drinking and drug use
errr, how can that be policed?? and to ask her not to use and slam the hoover against the walls after 9pm and bang the doors etc etc quite so loudly" and that "doing this should probably sort the situation out"
Am I being unreasonable to feel totally fobbed off and to not want to fill in this sodding thing every day? I have possible arthritis and writing is agonising. Or am I just overreacting and this is actually a step in the right direction? I'm sick of all the airy fairy "it'll be ok, we'll say please and bat our eyelids and it'll all be happy days". (Yes, GP appt booked for next week as my stress levels are unmeasurable)
I don't work in the field, but from experience of suffering
right sodding bastards people deficient in the skill of considering other people next door, recording all events is usual procedure. We weren't given forms to do it on, though and using the form that council has devised probably isn't important. It would just make filing easier.
Could you type it/use a voice to text program to record events on a Word document, and then just print that out instead?
And you really need to record events, because the last resort is court, and they want statements with dates and times.
you keep a diary - make sure you not only explain the noise/behaviour but also how it impacts you and living in your home - eg intimidated/ unable to sleep/have to turn up tv to hear it etc
the diary shows impact and frequency and they can determine whether their warning letter has an impact also. Based on your diary they will determine whether they will install recording equipment or maybe give you the number to call their out of hours team to come and witness the noise.
it is a long and arduous process so if you aren't invested in your home - eg not the owner or have lived there a long time and are attached to it I would personally move - it's shit and you shouldn't have to but it is a lot of work on your part and it is invasive imo (on top of what you have to deal with) and takes a while - as warnings have to be issued etc and given time to cooperate etc as if the council do go through the court they have to show that they have followed due process etc and if the HA evict him then they have to go through the proper channels and evidence is required.
there is a noisy neighbours forum if you google with folk who have gone through it and are going through it and some knowledgeable folk also.
ps they have to prove statutory nuisance - the requirements for this in legal terms is strict and yet vague
op's private nuisance is also possible to prove and easier but you would need to take the case to court as a civil matter (with a solicitor if you can afford it) so it is costly and if you lose could be astronomical - as I understand it from what EH explained to me.
Hsg Associations generally take this very seriously - ring them and explain that you find writing difficult and they should offer an alternative, such as typing it straight onto the form.
you have to document the incidents otherwise there is no formal record of what's happening and your HA would struggle to report it to the police who Also require those details. If it isn't a matter which would require police prosecution, then you HA will have evidence to go for eviction of your NDN. Sorry you are suffering this. It's horrible but honestly the sooner you get your evidence together, the sooner it will stop.
If you don't write it down what proof will you have in court? The police might not come out every time and a one line saying 'noisy for ages' will mean nothing. You need to be able to show how often, what the ASB was, how long each incident went on for and most importantly how it made you feel.
I know it might been a pain to do, but without written evidence you'll get no where
Antisocial behaviour is not stat Nusiance.
You need to contact eh to see if they think it could be stat Nusiance. Either way you need to keep the diary. I'm rusty in the nuisance area, someone more involved in this field might be along later to explain it better.
The diary for the ha is to collect evidence against their tenant and is slightly different from the evidence eh gather to prove stat Nusiance. If eh think there is a stat nuisance case they will ask you to keep a diary and then decide the best next steps, which may be monitoring equipment or a visit from ehos to determine a Nusiance. If they do determine one, a legally binding abatement order can be served. Your ha can't do that, only eh. Eh can't evict the tenant, your ha can.
That sounds like perfectly normal procedure to me, OP.
Sorry OP it is a long drawn out process, it has to be - think of it this way, if your malicious neighbour started making complaints about you would you want them to take her at face value? It's far too common for bullies to try and misuse the system and that's what the legal system is trying to prevent.
You're at the first stage, and the first stage of any complaint is to try and informally resolve. Tbh I don't think it'll be that long before your NN starts up again after a warning so you have that going in your favour time wise.
Have a good chat with your GP and see if they'll provide you with a note to add to your evidence about the stress you're under.
I agree with keeping a diary. When I was having problems with a NDN, I got the local authority to take notice of what was going on with a long list of every single thing that happened. In isolation it didn't look much, but when you put it all together it did.
They were finally threatened with eviction if they didn't pack it in. It took a while, but it worked.
oops sorry assumed this was through EH - maybe make a two pronged attack if noise is an issue along with the behaviour.
My friend jad to go through all thatto get her drug addict NDN evicted.
She had to log everything, even the smallest thing, for nearly 18 months before it went to court and she won.
She lost loads of weight, lost so so called friends who took the NDN side and was so stressed out by it.
But she got through it and has now got a brilliant neighbour.
Good luck OP
OMG you have my absolute sympathy but you must keep the diary and report any incidents to police too. Just a thought but I remember a similar case being raised on a local BBC radio station consumer phone in programme. It was resolved very quickly after their intervention.
Yes you need to keep the diary. If it goes to court they will need dates, times, incidents. It's standard procedure for all housing associations. It is a pain, but everything needs to be logged officially, otherwise it would not be seen as credible, and would have a hard time evicting tenants.
Also there may be small incidents you may forget if you have to relay them back verbally at a later date. All of which can be used to build a case.
It's not just HA who use this method. If you rent/own privately and go to the police over stalking/ harassment issues they ask you to do the same thing.
I would speak to the HA and explain your difficulty writing. I'm sure they would agree to you using another method of recording it. I'm also fairly sure you can use plain paper to record incidents, as long as you follow the format on the printed diary sheets. But again, I'd check with HA.
You will have to document all incidents, as this is what they would use for evidence whould it come to taking them to court to evict them.
It is worth doing but a pain, I know.
The HA will talk to th police and I am surpised if they haven't already. My HA and the local police work very closely together.
Hi babybearsmummy, I remember your last post. I know how frustrating this is for you only well, my friend had issues like this.
Get your contact at HA to email you a copy of the word document, it's easier to type then write. Some councils have the forms on their websites as well. Make sure you add all and any dates from the past and put them on one copy of that file- name that file 'incidents to date'. Make a second copy of the file to do the new ones in 'date -'. Email the old copy of the file to the HA and safer neighbourhoods police team. Personally I would also email the reports weekly, making sure to stress just how this has affected you. Daily if they seem to be doing nothing. Also if your neighbour is being antisocial after hours (playing loud music/parties/shouting) you can also call environmental health (not going to deny, they're pretty shit but at least it's another 'log') and you can request a recording device.
Also make sure to mention stress to your GP and any side effects to you and your family for it, I rememer you mentioned your DC being sleep deprived. Reference said GPs appointmentalongside how it's affecting you in your emails back.
It got to the point that my friend emailed daily. The woman at the HA complained and asked her to consolidate, she refused on the ground that they had to live with their tenant daily and so the least the HA could do is put up with reading about it. They had to accept it. Also cc said emails to your safer neighourhoods police team. Ring them first to have a chat, if possible.
You are not overreacting, it's a long process and very unfair to have to put up with. This is a step in the right direction but make sure you have all incidents -including past ones- documented. My friends HA and council tried to pull that one too, she refused and sent in one file with all the old ones to SN and the council, they were referenced in court which the HA had said they couldn't and wouldn't be.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.