ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.

to want my child's teacher to understand how apostrophes work!!!

(379 Posts)
intothenever Sun 15-Dec-13 16:44:24

DD is writing things like 'She live's in a house' and has been taught that the plural of potato is potato's! I am getting really pissed off!

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Tue 24-Dec-13 10:51:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

friday16 Mon 23-Dec-13 18:38:17

My limited experience of teaching involved trying to teach humanities to secondary age children who weren't just functionally illiterate; they couldn't bloody read at all.

Presumably pointeshoes would say that you should just leave them to facilitate their own learning to read, and the reason why they can't read is that they simply haven't been facilitated for long enough.

My limited experience of teaching involved trying to teach humanities to secondary age children who weren't just functionally illiterate; they couldn't bloody read at all.

Commas and apostrophes were the least of their worries.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 17:36:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 23-Dec-13 17:33:27

Oh yes, I entirely agree with what you just posted Friday, but there have been posts suggesting that children should be picked up on every error until they get it right, and that's what I was thinking. Also that when teachers don't correct everything, it's worth bearing in mind that, more than likely, that will be because of a conscious decision, and not because they just don't know.

friday16 Mon 23-Dec-13 17:00:00

All that said, I still don't think that red-penning all over a six year old's writing is the most useful or productive way to help move the child toward perfect spelling and grammar.

I don't think that's the point. I think the point is that a teacher should make a conscious decision to not point out mistakes, with a basis for that decision. They should neither not know that it's wrong, nor shrug their shoulders and assume that the plebs no-one cares about spelling/grammar anyway.

And when a teacher does point out a mistake, that act of marking should be unimpeachable: they should not make corrections that are themselves wrong.

OrlandoWoolf Mon 23-Dec-13 16:25:18

I know plenty of KS1 teachers who won't touch upper KS2 because of the demands of the curriculum. I also know some KS2 teachers who don't have the knowledge to teach some of the harder stuff.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 23-Dec-13 16:09:06

Yes... and, despite my reservations about some theory stuff, though, I have taken on board in the last few years that over-marking is as bad as not marking... I try really hard not to edit and correct everything: what would be the point in just writing myself an essay? I'm looking to give constructive feedback that will 'feed forward', and offer formative comments which students can actually work from next time. So while I'd get twitchy leaving some things unremarked, I don't edit everything: it does work better. Just as not red-penning all over a child's work is also more likely to be helpful and productive: they can't amend everything all at once.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 15:57:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 23-Dec-13 15:40:52

Being a tiny bit silly now, I think!

I certainly don't think bs in English and maths are too much to expect from teachers though, and nor do I think it is ok for teachers not to understand basic grammar.

Nor am I very keen on the reflective practice notions about 'facilitating learning', of which I have heard much in the last year. I don't lecture because I'm really good at facilitating learning: frankly, I qualify for my job because I know more than the students about the stuff I'm trying to teach them, and I try to do that in the best way I can. Of all the current practice and theory, tutor-as-facilitator seems to me the most dubious.

All that said, I still don't think that red-penning all over a six year old's writing is the most useful or productive way to help move the child toward perfect spelling and grammar. The fact that a teacher doesn't do that does not equate to the teacher just not knowing, necessarily.

storynanny Mon 23-Dec-13 15:22:59

Friday, Laqueen etc, you are so right!
To those of you who commented about older teachers making mistakes, I have to say that in my countywide travels as a supply teacher, I have been appalled at basic errors being made in written documents etc. Mainly, I have to say, made by younger teachers. I potentially have taught them as infants, reflecting possibly, the continual changing goalposts re literacy teaching requirements. On the odd occasion I have politely pointed out an error if it is glaring and totally unacceptable. On each occasion I was met with astonishment and disbelief that the said error was in fact an error.
I stand by my original remarks that it is totally unacceptable for teachers not to have a good/excellent working knowledge of basic literacy and numeracy. Apostrophe usage is basic. Sometimes I have to double check the correct usage of who/whom , due to/owing to etc, just as sometimes my doctor double checks his book for correct dosage when issuing a prescription. I am a Key Stage 1 teacher and expect my literacy skills to be as secure as a Key Stage 2+ teacher.
Hope I didn' t make any glaringly obvious grammmatical errors in my post- I will blame the tools, ipad, if so!

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 15:15:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Philoslothy Mon 23-Dec-13 14:11:02

Before we get carried away I suspect it is a select group of posters who want to see teachers with mediocre qualifications.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 12:18:47

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LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 12:16:14

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BabyMummy29 Mon 23-Dec-13 11:47:54

Brilliant LaQueen

I would have liked to be a doctor and my daughter would have loved to be a vet but we weren't clever enough - fact, so we settled for something within our academic range and got on with it.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 11:07:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 10:57:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Marrow Mon 23-Dec-13 10:28:14

Just received a parcel from my sister and thought of this thread! She is a primary school teacher and the parcel is addressed to "The Brown's". hmm

BabyMummy29 Mon 23-Dec-13 10:24:00

Friday and La Queen - you have just put into words what I've been trying to.

I'm relatively new to MN and can't believe how a post on a thread about badly behaved kids, low standards among teachers etc etc can be seen as being ageist, disablist, childist, discalculist - I could go on and on.

As you rightly say only on MN

I would have no more problem with an English teacher who wasn't great at arithmetic - which to my mind is fairly analogous to spelling for a maths or science teacher - than I would with a science teacher who made the odd SPaG error.

Being unable to interpret information effectively however is something else entirely. If you can't do that you shouldn't be managing anything, let alone children's learning.

friday16 Mon 23-Dec-13 10:08:33

Nobody here has claimed that teachers shouldn't have attained GCSEs in maths and English, have they?

Not in terms, no. But the heartwarming stories of people who would make marvellous A Level English teachers (in passing, just how many teachers have jobs such that teaching A Level in their primary subject is all, or indeed most, of their timetable?) were it not for their dyscalcula keeping them out of teacher training don't appear to make a terribly nuanced distinction between B and C.

Nobody here has claimed that teachers shouldn't have attained GCSEs in maths and English, have they?

friday16 Mon 23-Dec-13 08:53:44

Only on MN, can asking teachers (yes, teachers, FFS) to be intelligent and academically comptetent be seen as elitist, and not necessary, and not an essential part of their skill set.

And in teacher training colleges, where actually being able to teach is a very minor part of the training, behind a load of wishy-washy, poorly-evidenced "theory" that is mostly, as the Pauli once remarked, not even wrong.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre Mon 23-Dec-13 08:48:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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